Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on Today at 08:19:00 PM

I guess my two Ledger devices are going into my growing HW wallet museum.

My museum is rapidly growing as well. Undecided

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on Today at 08:19:00 PM

Quote from: DireWolfM14 on Today at 05:14:25 PM

As long as you only use it with (verified) Electrum, you should be good to go for many years.

Is that really true?

I wish I could predict the future, but I can't say for sure. My previous experience with Electrum and hardware wallet firmware does give me hope.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on Today at 08:19:00 PM

I don't really understand the process by which private keys can be extracted from the Ledger device--do you have to be using Ledger Live for that to happen? What if you have to update the bitcoin app? And even if that is true that you can use Ledger with Electrum safely, you're still screwed if you hold any other coins aside from BTC, ones that need frequent updates to their apps to keep working. A lot of folks hold more than just bitcoin, and I still think Ledger users are playing Russian roulette if they continue to use one of their devices.

Privat keys are never to be extracted from hardware wallets. Transaction data is sent to the wallet, which checks the data against the keys housed within, and either signs or rejects the transaction, and returns the resulting data back to the PC. Keys always remain locked within a secure element, that's the point and that's what eliminates Ledger devices from meeting the very definition of "hardware wallet."

With Trezors it's not so much a security issue as it is a privacy issue. Their contracting with Wasabi's coinjoin provider is suggests a lack of concern for their users' privacy.

With Ledger it's a whole other level of villainy; their firm ware is an encrypted secret, no public oversight is possible. As Synchronice mentioned, it's been this way all along and all along they told us it was impossible for software like Ledger Live to the extract private keys from the hardware. But magically they found a way to break their own security protocol, promote it a "feature," and enrich themselves on a lie.

Fortunately Ledger Live is open source and capable of being reviewed by peers. If some piece of code in previous releases of Ledger Live could have extracted seeds from the device, it'll be found sooner or later. That's above my paygrade, however.