Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 09:00:34 AM

Quote from: Odusko on July 26, 2023, 05:04:54 PM

All the same @Dictator69 if you started your bitcoin journey in few months back by your quest to learn cryptocurrencies trading which made you to pick interest in reading everything related to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, but I will say that that space of time is not enough because to build a stable financial portfolio in bitcoin one need to put in years of consistent learning and accumulation along the way up, not only buying the dip but also allocating a substantial amount of your total cash flow to stock up your Bitcoin holding to be able to attain the level where your financial stability won't only depend on the price of Bitcoin but also having other sources for cashflow that can sustain you during any market condition that may come along the line.

I could understand what you are saying, i have seen few motivational videos too in which many people tried to emphasize the importance of getting knowledge of How BTC could also make your life miserable if you will not follow or set some rule for yourself. Because, market is volatile and i definitely have to be careful. But from what i have understood from jayjuangee last reply to me.

Holding is better but doing DCA, Lump sum and buying at every dip is good. instead of putting 10% of your savings in BTC for like 10 years. Instead of that invest 1 whole years savings by following some holding ethics and see the gains you will get. I liked that idea and it is far better. So, again i totally agree with you too.

Of course, you are rephrasing the subject of bitcoin strategy differently than how I phrased it, so I am not sure if we are thinking about the matter the same, or maybe I am just misunderstanding how you are rephrasing the topic.

It seems that part of the essence of what both Odusko and I had been attempting to say is that within a 10 year or longer investment journey, there is likely going to be a lot of balancing and rebalancing of strategies along the way, and perhaps even needs to tweak strategies based on changes in your own personal situation, that may or may not end up involving your view of the underlying asset (in this case bitcoin).

Of course, the vast majority of us have not even been into bitcoin for 10 years, so we are not even going to really know for sure what bitcoin or our situation is going to look like in the next 10 years - even though we can still attempt to plot it out in a kind of general way that attempts to be as accurate that we are able to be based on what we know right now and even perhaps attempting to account for some of the unknowns along the way too.

Surely, the exact approach that any of us takes should be largely tailored to our own personal circumstances as we currently see them and in order to attempt to anticipate some of the changes along the way that might include cashflow, but also may well end up including various changes in other aspects of what we should be including in our personal considerations such as:

how much bitcoin we might have already accumulated, our other investments (including cash reserves), our view of bitcoin as compared with other investments, timeline, risk tolerance, and our time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets, which includes figuring out the extent that we are in BTC accumulation, maintenance or liquidation stage) and our abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time to consider trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or financial instruments.

Some of these considerations may well remain somewhat stable, but others might have a lot more variance or even end up changing on our own comfort levels.

I am not exactly sure what you meant by the idea of 10% for 10 years versus the other ways of accumulating 1 years worth of an investment portfolio, because when I used those numbers, I was trying to suggest that if any of us might choose to put in 10% of our salary per year, it is going to take us 10 years to reach a whole year's value that we had invested into our investment portfolio, and sure the resulting amount may well end up being less or it may well end up being more based on if the investment portfolio had performed well (such as greater than the speed that you yearly income went up), but if your income went up faster than the appreciation of your investment portfolio, you may end up having less than a whole year's income saved up at the end of the 10 years, so surely there can be some value in terms of the investment appreciating,

and even incomes can go up due to cost of living going up or incomes might go up because your ability to demand more income has gone up based on your increased skills (or perhaps your luck in terms of getting into better paying jobs). Of course, if your income goes up way more than demands upon you to increase your standard of living, then you may well continue to live with lower standards of living and to increase the amount (percentage) that you invest into your investment portfolio, whether into bitcoin or into any other investments.

Based on our actions today and even our attempts to make a solid plan, we still are not necessarily going to know where we are going to be exactly in 10 years, and our attempts to be more aggressive may end up in higher payoffs, but might end up with mistakes that undermine our progress towards where we thought that we could be versus where we end up being. I personally consider that it is a good practice to outline a variety of scenarios that are more conservative and more optimistic, but still that might not necessarily mean that we should be getting paralyzed by analysis, since we should be attempting to also act upon our plans, but also from time to time setting aside some time and space to analyze where we are at that may well include assessments of where we came from and a variety of possible scenarios regarding where we expect to be going.. while at the same time, ongoingly pursuing at least one of the paths that we have projected (perhaps staying focused might require to ONLY pursue one of the paths, but people generally can be capable of doing more things at once.. even though there should be some appreciation for the fact that if we spread ourselves out too thin and try to take on too many things, we might well end up screwing our own selves and not getting any of the things that we had projected to be reasonably within our future projections of how our finances and/or psychology could play out).

Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 09:00:34 AM

Invest with what you could lose to afford. Is the saying i have heard a lot in short period of time so, i am taking care of my personal expenses first before jumping into investing in BTC. But currently market is full of FOMO for me. Like i don't think i would get this opportunity again.

Yep. Exactly. We are all going to have these kinds of temptations that are going to be needed to be balanced upon making sure that we sufficiently have our own personal shit together... otherwise we are going to end up gambling and sporadic and likely to panic rather than really being prepared for the consequences for any of our actions.

Let's say that you have a rough idea for your cashflow, and you think that you might be able to be somewhat aggressive towards bitcoin and to invest $6k over the next 6 months, and you might even be able to front load that investment. However, you are not really sure because you have not really analyzed your finances very well, and you have a lot of debt and some uncertainties with your cashflow.

So instead of executing an investment plan that would dip too deeply into investing the $6k over the next 6 months, you instead decide to pursue a more modest approach in which you are committing to investing $2k over the next 6 months, and in the coming weeks, you will figure out if you might be able to tweak your plan to make it more aggressive.. and don't be disappointed, if after further analysis you realize that you are not able to increase your investment. and you have to continue to work on getting your shit better together.. and even if the BTC price goes up from here.. more opportunities will come and it is better to attempt to tailor to your own situation, rather than getting caught up upon speculation that the price is no longer going to dip (which might actually end up happening.. but you are likely going to be in better shape to really get some solid grasps on your own situation and to attempt to be more conservative, until such time in the future that you got your shit sufficiently together that you actually have a more informed assessment regarding the maximum amount of aggressive that you are able to be, without getting overly aggressive and potentially ending up recking yourself).

Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 09:00:34 AM

IS there any settings here to get notifications when someone call your name or mention you. Because i have to visit this thread to see if someone replied me back or not. I posted on many other topics too but do not if someone has replied me back so without getting into discussions like back to back on WhatsApp we do is not a fun. I am roaming around in search of topics where someone might be called or mentioned me.

I am pretty sure that there are ways to receive those kinds of notifications for when your name is mentioned, but I don't use any of those kinds of services (and I have been criticized for NOT using those kinds of services)... so hopefully, another member can describe those kinds of notice possibiltles.

Quote from: SmartGold01 on Today at 10:47:46 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:12:21 AM

Well, if you are thinking so small, in terms of doubling, then you seem to not really be prepared.

There are people who regret selling too much bitcon too soon because they sold at 100x or more profits, but then bitcoin kept going up.

Even my own portfolio is likely around 29x profits, but it had gone up to 69x and it was as low as 15.5x last November, so even within the profits, there can be a decent amount of fluctuation.. and even if I might have shared some threads in the past regarding how to think about beginning to rake profits, and surely each of us has to make our own choices regarding when we might begin to rake profits, and how much profits we might want to rake and in what kind of increments.

A good thread on raking profits is Rpietila's (Risto) (RIP) 2013 Thread entitled: (SSS) - A Sane and Simple bitcoin Savings plan

I can't specifically say with others intention but for myself I do plan to hold for long, but what made me mentioned about doubling their money for profits making is when those who weren't belong here had this mentality that bitcoin is being operated as ponzi were they could investment and are well sured to make back their profit within some specific timeframe as they wishes.

These sets of people will never in a day be equated to someone like your personality, although physically I can easily justify their actions and acting words towards bitcoin, considering the economic situation within my country and those who always had of or thought of bitcoin think and have this mindsets to have became Rich overnight without knowing it doesn't function that way. Which is why I said your experience of holding and accumulation strategies and your portfolios can't be simplified or being the same as your own mission and passion to accumulate gradually, while theirs could be for a daily bread and family progress ( selling off their little profits for family benefits and feedings).

You might get lucky, and bitcoin can end up playing out like that.. but it sounds like gambling, and it does not sound like a good way to play with bitcoin.. and of course, people can do whatever they like.

It seems to me that if they are cashing out too soon, they may well end up screwing over themselves, even if in the short term, it feels good to go away with some profits..

so I am not disagreeing with you that people think like that and that people employ such short-sighted strategies in regards to how they are in bitcoin.

By the way, in my own situation, i had frequently thought that bitcoin might be able to outperform my various other investments, which on average between about the early 90s and 2013 (when I got into bitcoin), I had calculated that my overall investment portfolio (the good, the bad and the ugly) had ended up performing on average around 5.5% per year, so I thought that if my BTC could at least reach some kind of similar level of performance on average, then I would be happy with my investment..

And surely in the beginning I had most thought about at least 2 years investing into bitcoin, and surely until now, I am getting close to 10 years, so I currently suggest that bitcoin is a better investment thesis than it was in late 2013, and therefore, I recommend that people mostly consider bitcoin in terms of a 4-10 year or more investment..and surely you (or anyone else) have options if bitcoin goes up in price in the short term.. but you might still end up selling too much too soon.

Quote from: SmartGold01 on Today at 10:47:46 AM

Well, my journey here has just evolve and I will keep striving and pushing harder to make sure In time to come I won't come yelling for my non being able to utilize the opportunities. Let say for instance they way you did and yet you keeps stacking up without even considering the percentage increase and decreased, well I must say I give a maximum respect to you and there is always a knowledge and a keynote to drived from you whenever I came in counter with your post and feedback, I don't hesitate to read even though it takes me time to comprehend all you put down I know I am gaining a very strong knowledge that will sharping and shaping me mentally and physically, as believe knowledge is what keeps us sailing and there's no day I can boast of without you putting in front line as someone who has made us understand importancy of belonging to a very broad community like Bitcointalk.

Yeah... but I am in a bit of a different situation.. because when I came to bitcoin in late 2013, I had already established a pretty decent investment portfolio in other things, so when I got into bitcoin, I had created a strategy that included a budget for 6 months and a strategy of accumulating BTC for 6 months based on that budget and reassessing, and then at the end of those 6 months, I pretty much decided to continue a very similar strategy for the next 6 months, so it was not until the end of 2014 that I reassessed, and I decided that my target for BTC should be 10% of my total investment portfolio (which I had largely reached during my first year investing into bitcoin)...

I don't want to necessarily repeat my whole history, but I do still frequently discuss that people need to get through their accumulation stage first before they get to their maintenance stage and/or their liquidation stage, and it is not exactly like the stages are completely exclusive of each other since I had thought that I had mostly gotten through my accumulation stage in my first year into bitcoin, but I still do end up accumulating bitcoin from time to time, even though now I consider myself to be more in my maintenance stage, and I am not even afraid of engaging in some liquidation.. even though I am not too aggressive about any kinds of liquidation actions that I might carry out.. ..

and at the same time, I personally end up talking about BTC accumulation.. since that is likely the place where most (sure not all) members are, and sure some of the members are already in or starting to get to maintenance stage and even the liquidation stage, but the vast majority of members and people in the world are in accumulation stage or should be in accumulation phase, since we still ONLY have less than 1% world wide adoption and even those people who hold bitcoin, likely do not have enough.

And, don't get me wrong, since I hardly give any shits if people decide not to buy bitcoin or to get some kind of a stake in bitcoin whether that is between 1% and 25% stake in bitcoin or some other stake, the decision is upon them to figure out if, when and how to get in... while at the same time, I surely don't mind sharing ideas and experiences for people who are interested in the topic, but it still remains their choice regarding how exposed that they want to be to bitcoin and how they might manage their approach in light of their own personal circumstances.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on Today at 10:58:49 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:12:21 AM

[edited out]

Yea,I also believe so that a newbie like me can choose to invest 5% of my income into bitcoin but after one year and my believe for bitcoin increases,I can increase my investment to 10% and so on every year respectively. Practice makes one perfect and the more years passes on as long as am not selling and have plans to hold for let's say 10 years. You will see it that I will have a buying strategy which I can adopt to accumulate more bitcoin based on my the channels of my cash inflow.

I can start with buying at dip at first and later,if I have another means of cash inflow,I come of with a new strategy to do DCA. If I got lucky and have an extra means of cash inflow,which shows that I have three means of cash inflow, I can adopt the strategy of DCA quarterly and also buy at dips too,to enable me accumulate faster before there might be a decline in one cash inflow.

If my cash inflow declines then it is left for me to look for a new strategy that I can use for accumulation again depends on the circumstances around my financial status as that period of time. @JayJuanGee for one to reach the fuck you status as you do say,it will take a very long time because as time passes on fiats depreciates and makes the value of bitcoin to increases,at the same time human wants can never be satisfied. One might think that if I can accumulate 1BTC,it is okay but reaching that journey,one might change his mind to make it 2BTC and accumulation of bitcoin continues.

It seems that you are saying a lot of that correctly, and I think that you can attempt to adjust your strategy in such a way in which you attempt to be as aggressive as you can without being too aggressive that you end up screwing yourself... and maybe yout have a goal of accumulating 1BTC over the next 5-10 years, but it is possible that you might not be able to reach your goal, but sure, if you reach your goal, you can also reassess whether you have enough BTC or if you believe that you are still in BTC accumulation phase and you should continue accumulating...

For sure there are going to be needs to engage in some reassessments along the way that likely relate to your own personal circumstances.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on Today at 10:58:49 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:12:21 AM

Quote from: SmartGold01 on August 01, 2023, 11:19:10 PM

Bitcoin is a long time project that requires a long term patient to be able to enjoy more benefits especially holding to double their money.

Well, if you are thinking so small, in terms of doubling, then you seem to not really be prepared.

There are people who regret selling too much bitcon too soon because they sold at 100x or more profits, but then bitcoin kept going up.

Even my own portfolio is likely around 29x profits, but it had gone up to 69x and it was as low as 15.5x last November, so even within the profits, there can be a decent amount of fluctuation.. and even if I might have shared some threads in the past regarding how to think about beginning to rake profits, and surely each of us has to make our own choices regarding when we might begin to rake profits, and how much profits we might want to rake and in what kind of increments.

If I may get it right from what you are saying,meaning one shouldn't sell his bitcoin for profits but hold on and see bitcoin as part of his lifestyle so that the longer you hodli,the higher the profit multiplies after each circle respectively.

Ultimately, you can do what you want, but it seems to me that if your goals are to accumulate BTC, then the best of the strategies relate to ongoingly buying BTC until you get to a point in which you feel that you have too much BTC... and maybe at that point you might consider that you might want to sell some from time to time, but there tends to be a quite a bit of danger in terms of thinking that you are selling BTC in order to buy back lower. So my own strategy and perspective over the matter of selling has been to sell only once you have overly accumulated BTC, and then sell such a small amount that it will not matter to you whether the BTC price does not ever go back down.

After I already typed this up, I am realizing that we are not really in the right thread for this kind of a discussion about selling BTC.. but I am just going to give a few ideas, while realizing that this is deviating from the thread topic, and if we want to pursue this line of discussion, we might need to take it to another thread.. and maybe link it here?

Anyhow, you also should not be selling any BTC unless you are clear and unambiguous about your BTC being in profits, and surely there could be ways in which you assess each portion of BTC that you bought, or you might consider your overall average of your BTC holdings... in order to consider how much profits (if any) that you are in in regards to which portions of your BTC holdings.

So you may well be able to figure out some kinds formulas that are reasonable and/or acceptable to you maybe you once your BTC get into 2x or greater profits, then you will sell up to 1% of the value of your holdings for every 10% that the BTC price goes up, and if the BTC price never comes back down, that 1% ends up being money that you can spend whenever you like.. or you can just hold part of some of it for buying back BTC if the BTC price goes sufficiently below the price that you had originally sold them.

Another kind of formula might be that you have already figured out that your BTC holdings are in profits, and your average cost per BTC was $25k or something like that. For the ease of calculation, lets say that you own 1 whole BTC (of course, you can calculate these matters with smaller units, even with satoshis), so you tell yourself, that once the BTC price goes up above $30k you are going to authorize yourself to sell a little bit of BTC every time the BTC price goes up $1k, and you figure that if the BTC price goes up $1k, then your profits are $1k (since you own 1 BTC), so you can easily calculate your profits, and you decide that the most that you are ever going to sell is going to be 50% of your profits. No matter what, you are never going to sell more than 50% of your profits for any particular increment of $1k price rise, but you have already decided that 25% would be more reasonable, so every time the BTC price goes up $1k, you sell $200 to $250 worth of BTC... and you consider that you are ONLY taking from profits, and if the BTC price drops 10% below your selling point that you will use that money to buy back.

O.k... I am realizing that I probably deviated from the topic of this thread too much, since we are not really talking about selling strategies here.. and there is a bit of a presumption that many of us are mostly in variations of BTC accumulation phases or perhaps getting into kinds of maintenance stages, which still might not really justify selling of BTC.