I concede, you got me, you're absolutely correct! I said that Ukraine did it, but Ukraine is a country and as such technically unable to perform terrorism, which only humans are capable of doing.
You seem to be enormously agitated by this pipeline that was made useless by your glorious leader long before it was damaged. What happened to the whole "let Europe freeze" strategy?
Anyways, even if "Ukraine" had done it, how the fuck would it be terrorism if they're at war with Putinstan... are we still pretending that it's just a "special operation" and it's super unfair for the special operators to suffer any consequences?
I appreciate the beginning of the transition from the silly denial stage into acceptance stage. But i'm truly stumbled by your question, pretense that Ukraine can set off explosions anywhere in the world is truly preposterous. Wait, perhaps you just believe that Ukraine is in war with Denmark or Sweden too? Perhaps you should ask paxmao why he feels that this is an act of war against those countries? Or you should ask US or Western allies why they view it as a sabotage on critical infrastructure? I'm not sure how else I can explain that Ukraine cannot blow up civilian infrastructures inside other countries
Or are you still just trying to involve as many countries into this as you can to get the WW3 going by setting the precedent for Russia to blow up some pipeline/civ. infrastructure in another country too?It appears that Netherlands intelligence was the one that tipped everyone off about the sabotage, and the ones that were wondering if they got this info how others could not have known about this.
Quote from: https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/13/europe/nordstream-plot-dutch-cia-ukraine-russia-intl/index.html
Dutch intelligence warned CIA about alleged Ukrainian plot to attack Nord Stream pipelines, Netherlands’ public broadcaster reports
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Dutch military intelligence warned the American intelligence service, CIA, last year about an alleged Ukrainian plan to blow up the Nord Stream pipelines three months before they were hit
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The United States received intelligence from a European ally last year that the Ukrainian military was planning an attack on the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, CNN reported last week based on information from three US officials.
The attack on the pipelines last September has been condemned by US officials and Western allies alike as a sabotage on critical infrastructure.
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Netherlands’s public broadcaster in its report said that the Dutch military intelligence service, MIVD, was able at an early stage to gather detailed information about alleged Ukrainian plot to blow up the pipelines.
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The pipelines were controversial before the war in Ukraine began, stoking concerns about European dependence on Russian gas.
Why do you think dutch intelligence is releasing this? Is Netherlands pro Putin now too in your head?...
Dutch military intelligence warned the American intelligence service, CIA, last year about an alleged Ukrainian plan to blow up the Nord Stream pipelines three months before they were hit
...
The United States received intelligence from a European ally last year that the Ukrainian military was planning an attack on the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines, CNN reported last week based on information from three US officials.
The attack on the pipelines last September has been condemned by US officials and Western allies alike as a sabotage on critical infrastructure.
...
Netherlands’s public broadcaster in its report said that the Dutch military intelligence service, MIVD, was able at an early stage to gather detailed information about alleged Ukrainian plot to blow up the pipelines.
...
The pipelines were controversial before the war in Ukraine began, stoking concerns about European dependence on Russian gas.
...
You can pretend that you're an investigative journalist all you want, but unlike your claims made without any citations, these are not my accusations, you're not arguing with me but with Washington Post, WSJ, Spigel, Guardian, New York Times, CNN etc etc etc...(which are really not known to sympathize with Russia, in fact i don't know what major publication did NOT pick up on this story). So instead of posting your opinions on anonymous forum i suggest you write a strongly worded letter to all these newspapers and let them know how they're all wrong and that they should retract their story, because paxmao just refuses to believe it, and together with 1miau have another theory of how it all went down with Putin on the narwhal. Post a link and I'll gladly read it if you'll get them to published it. I hate to be the one breaking it to you this way, but without citing more credible sources, no one really cares if an anonymous user is not convinced that the world is spherical.
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Finally we have something to discuss, it takes you a while to get of the irate responses and actually say something even if you have just one source and even if it is behind a paywall.
So, you base you accusation to the Ukrainian government of blowing up the NS because:
- A small vessel was around (definetly not at "the scene" which is 80 m below the water).
- That small vessel was rented by an Ukrainian company and sailed / operated from Poland.
- The vessel was in the area for 12 hours.
- Intelligence sources (take with plenty of salt) say that the US told Ukraine not to blow it up.
Anything else? Because that is not enough.
...
Finally we have something to discuss, it takes you a while to get of the irate responses and actually say something even if you have just one source and even if it is behind a paywall.
So, you base you accusation to the Ukrainian government of blowing up the NS because:
- A small vessel was around (definetly not at "the scene" which is 80 m below the water).
- That small vessel was rented by an Ukrainian company and sailed / operated from Poland.
- The vessel was in the area for 12 hours.
- Intelligence sources (take with plenty of salt) say that the US told Ukraine not to blow it up.
Anything else? Because that is not enough.
...
You can pretend that you're an investigative journalist all you want, but unlike your claims made without any citations, these are not my accusations, you're not arguing with me but with Washington Post, WSJ, Spigel, Guardian, New York Times, CNN etc etc etc...(which are really not known to sympathize with Russia, in fact i don't know what major publication did NOT pick up on this story). So instead of posting your opinions on anonymous forum i suggest you write a strongly worded letter to all these newspapers and let them know how they're all wrong and that they should retract their story, because paxmao just refuses to believe it, and together with 1miau have another theory of how it all went down with Putin on the narwhal. Post a link and I'll gladly read it if you'll get them to published it. I hate to be the one breaking it to you this way, but without citing more credible sources, no one really cares if an anonymous user is not convinced that the world is spherical.
Quote from: paxmao
Again, making things up - I did not ever say I am a journalist.
I do not make any claim, I clearly stated that I am expressing my view based on my reasoning on who has to gain from the event. I am not blind and I understand that there are other reasons why this could have been done by others. The Nordstream by-passed Ukraine, that is there for everyone to see.
However you are effectively making a claim stating that there is "irrefutable proof" - that is not an view or an opinion, is an statement of facts - thus you do have to provide such evidence. But you cannot, because whether you like it or not secret ops are mostly secret unless Snowden shows himself around.
I do not make any claim, I clearly stated that I am expressing my view based on my reasoning on who has to gain from the event. I am not blind and I understand that there are other reasons why this could have been done by others. The Nordstream by-passed Ukraine, that is there for everyone to see.
However you are effectively making a claim stating that there is "irrefutable proof" - that is not an view or an opinion, is an statement of facts - thus you do have to provide such evidence. But you cannot, because whether you like it or not secret ops are mostly secret unless Snowden shows himself around.
I concede, you got me, you're absolutely correct! I said that Ukraine did it, but Ukraine is a country and as such technically unable to perform terrorism, which only humans are capable of doing.
I have no interest whatsoever in "getting you", I do have interest in providing the right information (better, information that is right). You did not just say "Ukraine did it" (which I freely translate for the Ukrainian Government organised it), you said there was irrefutable proof of it. You showed some articles that mention very loose connections and mostly suspicions (even the titles of some say "suspicion").
Bottom line, there is no proof. My personal view - Russia most likely did it. My guess is that Ukraine would not damage infrastructure that mostly benefits Germany - an ally - and could stop EU aid if detected. Yes, I will write it again, the NS benefited mostly Germany.
I am still waiting for you to provide any "right information (better, information that is right)" from you outside of what you've seen in your dreams last night. What would it take for you to change your mind on this, and admit that UA involvement? Would you concede once Germany issues arrest warrants for those Ukrainians involved? But what am i saying, after all if flat earthers can deny that the earth is a sphere and no evidence is good enough for them, why shouldn't you be able to deny Ukraine involvement in Nord Stream sabotage?