Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 05:05:28 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on August 29, 2023, 07:02:17 PM

Your phrasing of this sounds weird because I had actually gotten my average price per BTC below $500, but the mistakes that I made along the way, had caused the average price per BTC to double... so it is like losing half of your stash, and if you had gotten 4.2 BTC for $2,100, so your average cost per BTC would have had been $500, but when you end up losing half of them, the total costs may well have stayed in the same ballpark, but the quantity of BTC ends up being 2.1 BTC rather than 4.2 BTC, and so therefore your average cost per BTC ends up being $1k per BTC rather than $500 per BTC due to mistakes that were made.

I did not meant to rephrase things, but I got the point, we all made mistakes on we regret later but also learn from them too and by time we don't make those mistakes anymore, I don't know what mistakes you made that yours stash become half, but the suggestions you have made to me, emphasize the importance of emergency funds and you have always mentioned that, it means, you must be stuck in some that kind of emergency state. I'm just assuming. I hope you will not mind.

I am describing with vagueness and with hypothetical on-purpose, and I think that the overall point is that there are a variety of ways that mistakes can be made - especially the longer that we might be in bitcoin, and perhaps the more adventurous that we might be with some of our ways of using bitcoin and/or storing bitcoin. Some of my problems/mistakes had to do with sim card swap situations, which I already described at various times in my forum life.. maybe not in this thread and I don't even necessarily think that it is a good idea to get into specifics here and then sometimes leaving some value with various third parties can lead to losses, such as I had some coins on BTC-E in 2016/2017 and then also with Bitfinex in 2016, and some of the direct transactions that I made had some losses involved with coins not going through, wrong amounts, sometimes scandalous (or opportunistic behaviors of others... so maybe some of my own mistakes might be framed as having had gotten involved at all, even though there is some value that comes through having experiences, and surely, there could be worse mistakes that involve buying and selling behaviors.. or other kinds of portfolio management that might come from transacting and then figuring out whether and when replacement might need to occur.. which I am not even going to suggest to have had been day-trading).

We learn from various mistakes, and the extent that we have been put into any kind of emergency state from losses of BTC might have to do with how much was lost, and then even some pretty big mistakes that I had did not completely remove considerable appreciation in the overall value of coins held.

Let's say for example in late 2016 to early 2017, a person might have held 40 BTC, and so when the BTC prices were around $1k, s/he had $40k in value in his/her holdings and also if the average costs were $500, then the amount invested would have been around $20k, but then a bunch of mistakes happen all at once and half or nearly half of all of the coins are lost or stolen. Think about it, all through 2015 and 2016, the 40BTC would have been valued around $10k to $20k, so when the BTC price went up to $1k in late 2016 and early 2017, the BTC portfolio had doubled in value, so 100% profits, and so if we are looking at 2017 and 2018 and BTC prices thereafter, the 20 BTC continued to stay above the $20k invested, and even mostly stayed above the $40k at the time of the loss, so the loss was likely ONLY a temporary blip in the dollar value of the coins, and sure there could be whining about "I could have had 40 BTC, but wha wha wha, I only have 20 BTC", but what good is that going to do?..

Maybe through the next 6-7 years, the BTC holdings goes from 20 BTC to 25 BTC, and maybe more value is injected during that time (maybe another $40k-$60k in order to get 5 more BTC?.. or maybe ONLY an additional $5k is injected to get from 20 BTC to 25 BTC that keeps the average cost per BTC to remain at $1k-ish), but there also could be thoughts that "I am never going to get back to 40 BTC," but where was the "emergency" exactly?

Sure a short time during the losses of going down from 40 BTC to 20 BTC, there could have been feelings of loss and emergency.. but there also could be feelings of futility in trying to get the value of the lost 20 BTC back or the waste of time and energy to even think about getting back 20 lost BTC, because merely having 20 BTC in the remaining portfolio still seems to be enough since the then current holdings of 20 BTC would still be considerably profitable throughout 2017, 2018 and even at all points thereafter, and so there may well would not have necessarily have been any long-lasting sense of any emergency based on the portfolio continuing to be quite profitable, whether we are talking ONLY about the initial $20k that had been invested or even if we might include some of the additional value that had ended up getting injected in the subsequent 6-7 years.

If someone owns 25 BTC right now and has around $75k invested, then s/he is feeling pretty good with an average price of $3k per BTC, and I am saying that I still like to calculate my own average cost per BTC to be around $1k per BTC and even suggesting that it is probably even less than $1k per BTC, yet I still like to round up to $1k per BTC (or to give a ballpark calculation of $1k per BTC) for ease of calculation purposes.

Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 05:05:28 AM

PS: I am actually quite late to reply, the problem is, my laptop was not working due to some exceptional errors and some blue screen issue. So, I have to use my old one and I just swapped the hard drives so I could access this account back. It is hard to read and make replies to you, that's why I thought I should wait for the laptop. I hope you won't mind late replying.

No problem... Just needing to remember what we were talking about... and not wanting to deviate from the topic of this thread too much.. but it tends to be o.k. to have some deviation if the topic still kind of relates and does not really contradict the thread topic.

I understand that newbie bitcoiners (and maybe even just people who might have some of their own investing rookie-ness) sometimes might panic and/or start to feel that they need to take emergency measures to make up for any losses that they might have had suffered at various points in time in their bitcoin accumulation journey.. maybe they failed/refused to invest in bitcoin, so they feel like they have to make it up or maybe they had gone through some losses and/or made some mistakes and feel that they need to get back to where they were.. which it seems to me that many times those kinds of behaviors are problematic, because we should mostly (if not exclusively) continue to try to follow better practices when managing our BTC accumulation strategies and/or even when getting into the maintenance stages of our BTC... so if we might have gone through some kinds of losses that kick us out of BTC maintenance stage and we end up back in accumulation stage, then sure we have to deal with those kinds of situations, but we should still be trying to put ourselves into a kind of normal state and not feeling that we are in any kind of an emergency status merely because some mistakes had been made along the way...

..and yeah, of course, some mistakes are worse than others and more difficult to recover from than others... so there could be some instances in which any of us might feel that we are in a short-term emergency status, but hopefully, we are able to get into a state in which we are NOT in an emergency status for any kind of period of time that last for than a few months .. and sure some times our situation might not allow us to get out of the emergency status, but my own circumstances never did rise to that level of emergency status, including that I could have lost all of my BTC and I still would have been albe to keep up my then standard of living.. sure I would not be in as good of a position as I am today, but my BTC were not needed for any of my then monthly and/or yearly expenses including that I already had various cash cushions including emergency funds that I had available, even when my BTC reduced in half and could have reduced in full.. which the second case would have got me more concerned about a potential emergency status.. and like I suggested, my BTC (in terms of their dollar value) did not really lose value for any extended period of time based on how the BTC price was moving in late 2016 and into early 2017 and through the subsequent passage of time.. we can see from the BTC price charts that we pretty much got over $3k per BTC in late 2017, and so far, the BTC price never went below $3k again.

Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 05:05:28 AM

hehe, this laptop works directly, and during writing this reply, I mistakenly unplug the charger and end up losing the reply Which I wrote at first, Now I am writing it again. Unfortunately, the last reply was not saved. Lips sealed

That sucks.

Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 05:05:28 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on August 29, 2023, 07:02:17 PM

In the first few years after I got into bitcoin it seemed that quite a few guys wanted to try to get 100 BTC, but at some point a common BTC accumulation target became 21 BTC, and then it got down to 10 BTC, and then recently even 1 BTC was seeming unattainable by a lot of newbie normies, so many times many forum members were talking about setting BTC accumulation target levels that were manageable and symbolic, so that is where 0.21 BTC comes in, and my claims (admissions) of having more than 3x the amount that some newbie normies were trying to reach for their beginning BTC accumulation target levels.

It is already starting to make sense to start talking about these BTC accumulation level targets in terms of satoshis, whether the goal might start out to be 1million satoshis, and then maybe become 21 million satoshis and then maybe to shoot for higher levels after reaching those amounts and then considering bitcoin whales as those persons who have more than 1 billion satoshis.

That's because when you must have started the price of BTC were lower and people must have set higher BTC targets just because they can really buy them easily, but in relative to that, it is quite hard to accumulate 100 BTC for a normal person. That's why people are now talking in satoshi, they know they can not deal in BTC terms that's why.

You emphasized the importance of wishes getting expand, I recently read a topic in economic section, where the OP was conveying the message that, one must not fulfill his wishes that are so unnecessary instead they should invest that fund. But I think, if a person have a wish to not buy something or waste money on unnecessary things instead he wish to invest more then I think he should not ignore that wish. Wink

Of course, we have individual discretion in terms of how much we might need to set aside for our BTC purchases, and even putting aside $10 week could cause people to suffer in a variety of ways, and some things might be easier to suffer through than others.... Do I buy a brand new laptop or do I buy a used one or do I repair my current one, and sure sometimes even with the laptop there can be considerable differences in prices, yet there might not be enough utility to spend $6k on a laptop versus spending $600, and sure it would be nice to have the extra funcionality.. but are you in a position to really get value out of that $5,400 extra that could end up going into BTC instead, and if you don't really need another laptop for 3 years, then the $5,400 may well have had been better spent on BTC rather than upgrading from a $600 to a $6k laptop... and yeah, maybe you could do a little bit of both, and if you choose to buy a $2k laptop, you still might be being a bit frivolous, but you still might have $4k that you can invest into BTC because you chose to defer some of your present gratification and hoping that you end up getting more future gratification by having that $4k invested into BTC rather than invested into a fancier laptop.

Quote from: Dictator69 on Today at 05:05:28 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on August 29, 2023, 07:02:17 PM

Once I decide how to put it together and to post it, then maybe i could provide link here.. but it is going to be more able sustainable selling. which this thread is not talking about. ..............

I will be waiting for that link, either this thread is relevant or not, we can at least share the links I hope.

Many times we can share links, especially if the topic was mentioned and/or might be indirectly related to the topic of the thread... Sharing a link tends to be a more accepted way of sharing a somewhat divergent topic... and yeah, I have been personally practicing with my little scheme.. but it sometimes can take a while to figure out how to discuss it.. and even to figure out whether I want to discuss it... I might even decide to put it in my investment ideas thread.. but yeah, I haven't posted it yet.