Quote from: rachael9385 on October 01, 2023, 08:36:48 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 01, 2023, 02:25:55 PM

[edited out]

I also support the idea of getting knowledge before the investment, like @makus already said earlier, about a child and a knife. That's a good instance. Let's think about the fact that new investors don't have any idea about Bitcoin but have the money for Bitcoin, and they bought BTC, and they don't have any strategy to accumulate or don't even have patience of hodl for long periods. What will be the benefits if they don't have Bitcoin knowledge??

I am going to attempt to give my perspective by quoting myself.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 15, 2021, 02:10:03 AM

These principle individual factors that influence your decision whether to invest into bitcoin and how to invest into bitcoin have financial, skills and psychological components that include:

1)   your cashflow,

2)   how much bitcoin you have already accumulated,

3)   your other investments (including cash reserves),

4)   your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments,

5)   your timeline,

6)   your risk tolerance,

7)   your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets, which includes figuring out the extent that you are in BTC accumulation, maintenance or liquidation stage),

8 )   your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time,

9)   your considering your time, your abilities and whether to trade, reallocate from time to time, to use of leverage and/or to use financial instruments... (and for sure the use of financial instruments, leverage and margin trading involve higher level skills and are not even necessary to still become richie in bitcoin's already existing asymmetric bet.)

You see that your knowledge and view of bitcoin is ONLY one of the factors that you need to consider when investing into bitcoin, so there is nothing wrong with making sure that you have that part sufficiently covered, but it is still ONLY one of the parts that needs to be considered.. and out of the 9 parts listed above, you are not going to perfect them right away. You need to put them into practice and you need to figure out some portions of them better than others, and you might never get all of them perfect because they are likely to be moving targets that need to be adjusted at various points in time, instead of locked into a static plan that might not be as individually tailored if the plan does not get tweaked from time to time and in order to move with the times.

Sure, some aspects are going to be more solid than other aspects, and some aspects are not going to change very much, so when tweaks are made they might end up ONLY being necessary because of one or two of the 9 considerations rather than needing to overall the whole thing, while at the same time, one or two changes in any of the factors could have real large ramifications on the whole BTC investment plan including whether to get into bitcoin, how to get into bitcoin or even the need to get out (and/or how to get out). And again, knowledge about bitcoin is ONLY one of the factors, and I am continuing to assert that it can be quite problematic to try to get to a perfect status regarding any of the parts, and there is likely to be sufficient levels of due diligence that permits getting started sooner rather than later and then adjusting along the way.

Quote from: rachael9385 on October 01, 2023, 08:36:48 PM

Although investing in Bitcoin is important, having knowledge of Bitcoin is also important too. So I will agree that knowledge is the most important thing about everything.... If we don't have the knowledge of Bitcoin and also have no strategy, then we are at a loss in our investment.

We may be saying similar things, but just in different ways and with differing emphasis. I am not against the idea of getting some basic knowledge and/or developing some kind of an investment thesis and plan... but action is also quite important for the process of learning and the process of lessening the likelihood of too much procrastination that leads to higher and higher levels of paralysis.. and frequently it is better to get started sooner rather than layer, especially once you have some basic understandings.. and then if you are questioning some of your basic understandings, you are not likely going to end up being overly damaged by starting out small.. with something like $10 per week and maybe you are spending several weeks or even months learning some of the basics (depending on how much time you are able to spend at any time.. maybe some people are able to dedicate 8 hours a day for studying bitcoin, and others might ONLY be able to spend 2-4 hours per week for several months, and then maybe at some later point, they might have more time to look into bitcoin,

...and in the mean time, the newbie normie may well likely be better off starting investing into bitcoin with a small amount rather than putting it off... especially if they already reached a determination that it would likely be good to put 1% to 25% of their liquid investment portfolio into bitcoin, and if they already have an investment portfolio of $50k and if they are putting $10 per week into bitcoin, then it would take them a whole year of investing at that rate to even get to 1% of their investment portfolio in bitcoin.. that is if they were not continuing to invest in the other assets of their investment portfolio at the same time.. not even the investment portfolio is static when we make these kinds of allocation and accumulation decisions.

Quote from: rachael9385 on October 01, 2023, 08:36:48 PM

From kids to adults, as a new investor, we should learn gradually as learning is a gradual process and not get all the knowledge of Bitcoin in just one. There might be a loss in our investment, so we can learn from it.

You seem to be reading too much into my statement that suggests to get the fuck started right away and without delay. From my perspective, I am not even saying that any newbie goes balls to the walls in his/her BTC investment approach, but I am still saying get started without delay, and if you might not know too much about bitcoin and you may well know that you are easily able to invest $100 per week, if you start with $10 per week while you are studying into bitcoin, it is likely way better than procrastinating 1-2 or even 6 months or longer because you are trying to learn things that likely are not even that central to your already base level of knowledge and your having had already determined that it would be a good thing to get some bitcoin. Perhaps I am presuming already existing knowledge when there is already some level of conviction that it would be a good idea to get some bitcoin, so then get started right away with a small part as you continue to research further into it.

Are we each just repeating ourselves over and over? I say get the fuck started as soon as you have basic level of knowledge and an idea that you want to invest, which may well not take more than a few hours to figure out... depending on your already existing knowledge (presuming adulthood and some basic level of experience to balance your accounting of your cashflow and your expenses), and you are perhaps presuming no knowledge, like a 1 year old... so our presumptions perhaps are different.. I understand that even an adult that only has basic understandings of their incoming cash versus their expenses will still likely need to learn how to invest, but I am not hesitating to suggest that they get the fuck started right away with bitcoin, and figure out the details as they go... and in regards to position size, and you are seeming to suggest that they need to spend time studying prior to getting started. Maybe we are not going to agree, and good luck with the procrastination that you are going to get by imposing those kinds of knowledge requirements prior to getting started with BTC investing.. which seems to be what an overwhelming of forum members are suggesting, but not this here cat.

Quote from: Mr.right85 on October 01, 2023, 11:38:47 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 01, 2023, 02:25:55 PM

I don't completely agree with what you are saying, because it seems that I am more of the get started as soon as possible camp.. and learn along the way. .even while at the same time, there are some basics that either need to be know or that should be knowable to most people - in spite of the tendencies that people have to gamble, rather than invest...

Learn as you ho certainly has its benefits as, you can take advantage of certain price offers but, it doesn’t permit you to make mistakes as they could prove costly. You can easily be a first victim to an experience but, that’s the risk in learning as you go.
Though, with proper mentorship and an extended curiosity, a lot could be averted before it occurs.

Position size also helps to address these matters. A person who is learning as they go and invests $10 per week will end up investing $520 over a whole year, and so fucking what if they end up losing all of it while they are learning. And if $520 over a whole year is too much, then start with $10 per month, and then you end up losing $120 over a year.. but at least if you are investing you are getting started and more incentivized to learn and even maybe in less than a year you are going to be able to adjust your situation in order to lessen the likelihood for mistakes. Almost everyone makes mistakes in all kinds of areas of our lives. Yeah, we do not purposefully go in and try to make mistakes. Instead we go in and we try to do everything the best that we can under our then knowledge status and we learn along the way... so I stick to my guns.. don't get bogged down by presuming that a vast majority of normies do not know how to balance their cashflow.. which is likely the ONLY prerequisite that I am expecting...

because I am also presuming that the newbie normie has reached a tentative conclusion that it would be a good thing to both learn about bitcoin and invest into it, and therefore my suggestion remains.. get the fuck started and don't be procrastinating and/or presuming that you don't know enough if you already know your general cashflow.. how much cash you have coming in and how many expenses you have and how much you have left and you can determine how much of that extra to put into bitcoin while you are learning.. .. so if you have $100 per week that is left, then maybe you start out with $10 per week into bitcoin... that's a good start. especially while learning, and then if you learn and learn and learn, then maybe over the course of a year or two, then you might slowly increase the $10 per week to become closer to the $100 per week.. using that disposable income level as a constant, even though over a year or two, you still might be making adjustments that also cause your disposable income levels to go up.. and for you to perhaps develop greater conviction towards bitcoin over that first year or two while learning.

Quote from: Mr.right85 on October 01, 2023, 11:38:47 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 01, 2023, 02:25:55 PM

I have mixed ideas about your example of giving a knife to a 1 year old as a toy... . so I thought that kind of an example has quite a bit of potential... but then maybe it is a bit patronizing to be comparing newbie investors to infants of such inexperiences.. or that they are being given something.. so surely everyone has responsibility for their own actions, and surely the younger the kid, the less autonomy they have and the more they are completely dependent upon their parents..

Yeah, the knife to an infant analogy here don’t go as I feel they vary to a large extent. While an infant might make several mistakes before getting to learn a simple trick, the case is different for an adult when it comes to investing in a particular field and you could actually learn on the way except, your far better off learning first.

Nearly all of the forum members are gravitating back to this same point that you are better off learning first... which seems quite strange to me.. I am sticking to my guns. .You are better off getting started as soon as possible, learn along the way and take a small enough position size that it does not matter if you lose it, but at the same time, you are neither trying to lose it and you do have to likely spend a bit of time in your preparations to figure out how much you are going to start out with and how you are going to gain exposure and then you can also tweak those matters along the way.. .where you buy your BTC, where you hold your BTC, and then later down the road, learning the aspects of self-custody, but the need for self custody is not necessarily a prerequisite to getting started in bitcoin, and maybe you spend a year or so investing a small amount, but then after you reach a certain level of holdings then you transfer that to self-custody.. but if you ended up screwing up because you got involved in some kind of an investment vehicle that does not allow you to take self custody, then you have to deal with that matter, but the mere fact that you made those kinds of mistakes does not take away from the value of getting the fuck started rather the waiting around until you have some kind of level of knowledge that involves what it takes many forum members years to figure out (depending on how much time that members had been spending to learn about bitcoin.. we still have forum members who have been on the forum for many years and still seem to not know shit about bitcoin.,. and it could be part of the problem is that they spent a lot of time learning rather than acting.. and one of the better ways to learn is through acting.. or a combination of acting rather than telling yourself that you can wait.. blah blah blah.).

Quote from: Mr.right85 on October 01, 2023, 11:38:47 PM

Opportunities might be missed, you miss the chance of having to buy at certain prices where you met the coin and it was readily affordable but, that’s the price for the security you hope yo guarantee through learning.

You are not going to avoid all of the mistakes merely because you wait.. and so instead of investing right away like I suggested, instead you wait for several weeks or several months or a year or two while you study and look into the matter, and all that shit you are supposedly learning is not really sinking in very well because you are not actively investing.. so then when the learned person actually starts to invest into BTC, then such learned person is still likely going to have to go through some learning that comes from actually putting all that learning into the practice of starting to buy bitcoin and I am not even sure if the prior learning is going to prevent (or lessen) the likelihood for various mistakes.. security or otherwise.... so yeah, go ahead and wait and get it all figured out prior to getting started, that's your choice.