Quote from: dave5555 on April 19, 2014, 05:22:21 PM

Quote from: utopianfuture on April 19, 2014, 05:13:07 PM

Quote from: dave5555 on April 19, 2014, 05:09:26 PM

Quote from: utopianfuture on April 19, 2014, 04:45:33 PM

Quote from: dave5555 on April 19, 2014, 04:27:08 PM

Quote from: utopianfuture on April 18, 2014, 08:16:56 PM

Quote from: dave5555 on April 18, 2014, 07:47:29 PM

Quote from: robertjr on April 18, 2014, 11:18:36 AM

Quote from: dave5555 on April 18, 2014, 04:22:11 AM

To UF:

I saw some of my clients on the refund list.

These are people I know in my personal life and I recommended investing in NEM for them.

I acted as a broker for them because they are not very knowledgeable about crypto or advanced in PC use.

They have already paid me fiat for their stake and were patiently waiting for me to update them on the status of the coin.

They are as follows:

nateM7654
annT78
camaronloco
mich38754
eylucu4531
michaelW8796i

I had already talked to you prior to this to make sure it was ok to act as broker for other people who are not very aware of these forums/crypto coin scene.

And yes I did create an account for each because that's how you stated I should go about investing for them.

Here is your original response:

Quote from: dave5555 on February 05, 2014, 04:04:46 PM

Quote

Yes that should be the way because your friend represents the new account. So make a new account for him and reserve a stake from that account. You can send NXT from the same address as well (maximum 2 stake per address).

1 NEM share would have > 1 million NEM. So there are many to share. No need to buy a lot of stakes. Thanks for supporting NEM.

Thank you for clearing this up. I will get to it as soon as possible.

For the greedy it might be good for a while, but they will always lose out in the end. That's my philosophy and experience.

I would give him one additional stake to divide between the six and refund the other five spots. 166,666 NEM (1M/6) each is still a lot.

It's not fair, I had discussed this with UtopianFuture in order to avoid all of these problems.

I did everything transparent to make sure that UF knew I wasn't a scammer, I was just helping other people in my life invest into NEM.

Now I have to refund their money, lose their trust, and even lose money because I bought NXT at a higher price to buy into NEM.

I still see no reply to my post from dev.

I did all of this before I proceded to take people's investment, he assured me it was ok so I was paid fiat by these people.

They get in touch with me almost weekly to keep them updated, now I have to tell them we are being called scammers and give them money + some of my money back.

I have already been scammed out of BTC from other scam/fake coins.

If this doesn't go through, I will stay away from cryptocoins until a real company develops a real working product.

The whole point to crypto was to be decentralized money for the world, but with all the scams and fake accusations like NEM is doing, many people like me will back out and instead wait until a competent company with a real coin and devs shows up. This will inevitably cancel out the revolutionary idea behind cryptos.

In my defense, what I replied to you in my PM is a principle that you can create an account for your friend but even then I did not encourage you to enroll many stakes. I did not approve any thing specific or knew how many account you plan to enroll. On the other hand, the central principle of NEM fundraising is participation and 2 months so far all of your friends have done nothing and they all stay 1 post accounts. Are they going to set up nodes ? are they going to contribute to the "spread the words" campaign ? These are the things we take into accounts when I put these accounts on the refunding list.

I will see if I can accommodate 1 or -2 stakes so that your friend group can share and imo that's is enough given your friend level of contribution.

To all people in refunding list, please step up and complain and we will deal with all complaints on a case by case basis. After several days or when 20 stakes allocated to the refunding list running out the discussion will be considered closed and the all later complaints will be entitled to refunding. Also please don't pm me, post here or in the stake complaint thread instead, we will deal with like a community. Talk over the issues, deal with it in a rational manner ---> Win Win.

Regarding the refunding it is now officially open to everyone. I will try to collect all demands and make refunds every week (there is a column in the final list for that so the community can monitor). So far the none of NEM development fund in BTC address and NXT address has ever been used and it is not going to be used except to satisfying refunding request until NEM officially launch.

Nah, you kept changing your terms weekly.

First it was a coin, now it's a union (this is cryptocurrency, not a labor movement)

You never mentioned they had to be active.

Then you went from OK for multiple stakes for people, to less than 5 stakes for people.

Now you changed your terms again.

Never did you mention they had to be active.

If that was the case, I would have just done what every smart sockpuppet creator does.

Get on the exchange > transfer directly to a new account

Then all I had to do was every few days post on this forum some useless post about helping.

But I decided to keep it transparent and so that you saw that the money came from my account and I was acting as a broker.

I kept my end of the deal, but you broke your end of the deal.

You made an empty promise.

You lied.

Too much wishy washiness.

The people that invested through me are not very tech savvy and have lives, not like us that spend 12+ hours on the internet.

Yes I wanted to run nodes for this project, I promoted to other people, got them involved.

This does not mean every single person invested will be active promoting NEM and helping.

Some of us will help, others will just be investors. Thats the way it works when investing into companies. Not everyone will be active.

I think UF is just trying to squeeze more money out of people by holding the "waiting list auction".

There is no need for waiting list, you have enough BTC. Stop being so greedy, which is what you "supposively" are against.

Your actions say otherwise.

This is one of my BTC personal account 1KeZuWC7GHSQ949127UdFXyoTieGkzTroy. It has more than all the fund that have been raised for NEM. I am ready to push much more than that into NEM development. What is needed for NEM is not money but a supportive community and contributors. Nevertheless, more fund should definitely help to recruit more specific skill to the development.

As I said before while the fundamental principle of NEM has never changed, specific requirements do change and I am entitled to that change as I see fit for the network and still conform to the the fundamental principle of NEM. If you doubt that come back to read the disclaimer

Disclaimer:
- While we are committed to the idea of " Completely Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL "; the fund raising terms are subject to changes upon the discretion of the development team.
- There is no refund. Nothing comes out of NEM's receiving addresses until the genesis block is launched. We are committed to move the project forward. However, in the unlikely event that the project disintegrates and no one picks it up, the remaining development fund will be sent to a charity of the community's choice.
- No contractual promise is made to anyone.
- Be patient

The disclaimer applies until the announcement of the Development contract.

Thanks for allowing me to add another disappointment to the list of scams/disappointments in cryptoworld.

I have lost money already dealing with this whole scene, I thought NEM would be different.

It seems like this is just another "get rich scheme" thought up by some people on this board when they saw what NXT did.

This one just happens to be more elegant and better thought of scheme to put money into OPs account.

I'm done.

Next time, don't promise things and then backtrack yourself on your promises.

Some of us actually hold our promises to the end and follow a code of ethics closely.

I am someone who keeps his promises, now I have to backtrack and look dishonest in front of other people.

Thanks for making me lose money and have my trust level lowered with the circle of people around me.

I'm not a rich man, so it wil hurt my pockets when I refund and after all the BTC I was scammed out of.

At least I held my end of the deal, you did not.

You gave out empty promises.

That shows your true character, you've just been doing this whole NEM thing as a way to get rich quickly.

Opportunistic is what this is called.

Are you angry because you can't have 10 stakes of NEM for yourself ?

I am disappointed, not angry.

I said I acted as a broker and we had cleared this up back in February.

I kept everything transparent.

The stakes are not for me, they are for people around me.

This is what happens when liars are pushed into a corner, start insulting and attacking without proof.

At least I have proof of your wishy washiness and how many times you have backtracked on your promises.

Maybe I have discovered your true purpose for NEM, it just happens that it took off bigger than what you expected and now you have to deliver an actual working product of quality, not just another crappy clone.

Again, these stakes were for people around me, thats why I contacted you in the first place to make sure it was OK.

I even kept the outgoing transactions transparent from my account so you would know I wasn't just trying to buy extra for me.

As stated before, all I had to do was use the exchange for the transfer to new accounts to hide it, but I didn't because I was acting in an honest way. I wasn't trying to scam for more stakes.

I don't promise you any thing in particular. I said it okay that you can create an account for your friend. But you got it wrong when you think this is an investment while it never was. If you asked can my friend do nothing and not participate in helping NEM then I would say NO. This is not a hypothetical answer because it was indeed the answer I gave in one p.m earlier.

It should be very clear to everyone that NEM is now much bigger than it was in the first conception. It is a changing concept grown out of the stakeholders' contribution. It will be even much bigger later when the development team publish whitepaper, technological road-map etc. and other stakeholders join in. I will try to keep NEM evolve in that way.

@Dave I never knew how many friends you have and want to create accounts for. I thought the question was for one friend. Anyway as I said your group of friends could get 1 or 2 stakes depending on refunding situation and I think you should take that.