Quote from: Rruchi man on October 23, 2023, 07:36:29 PM

Quote from: hypothetical on October 23, 2023, 04:19:40 PM

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Technically traders are still investors. Because rather than accumulating bitcoins by direct purchase and then waiting for it to gain in value, traders try to make profit from the market by predicting it's movement. The aim of everyone is to make profit from bitcoins, and buying bitcoins (investment), trading or even mining bitcoins are all ways to profit. They are all good.

Investing in bitcoins does not require as much technical knowledge as trading and mining bitcoin demand.

You have mixed up ideas, if you want to describe everything as the same and just means to make money, which largely means that you do not understand the difference between trading and investing.

Sure, there might be some overlap in the ways that some people might conduct trading and/or investing, but you did not describe such overlap, and you merely just proclaimed that they are the sane because they are just ways to make money... a ridiculous assertion, and I should not spend any time elaborating further than I already did. nuff said.

Quote from: bayu7adi on October 23, 2023, 07:50:24 PM

Long-term investment is the wiser choice. With it, you won't have to worry about complex analyses like day traders who must always be ready in front of their computers, gazing at candlestick charts. Long-term investment can be done at any time; you simply buy and then almost forget about it, so your emotions don't get mixed up when bearish prices come early. I am very confident that, in the end, the price of BTC will rise as well.

In long-term investments, you will have more time to focus on other productive matters. This way, your income will come from various sources, making you wealthier more quickly.

That is a good point. A really great way to make money is by investing, but if someone is fairly new to investing then they might not have very much money to start. So in that regard, if they can figure out ways to increase their earnings, then they can fold those earnings into bitcoin (or any other long term investments that they believe to be suitable to their situation and views).

It would be difficult to generate money from trading and also to be able to fold that money back into the investment, but surely not impossible, yet one of the major problems is that a person needs to have some resources to pay for living expenses, and so if there is no separate income then the money would come from the trading, but it would not be easy to build up the value in the position, including possibilities of compounding values of the account if some or all of the profits have to continually be withdrawn to pay for living expenses.

Quote from: bayu7adi on October 23, 2023, 07:50:24 PM

As long as Bitcoin is not an instant money generator, waiting is the most appropriate approach. There's no need to rush for quick profits because network growth and wider adoption also take time. Fundamentally, Bitcoin holds great promise for the future.

Yep.. the punchline it takes time, and there is a large value in compounding.. but that can take time too... even though there might be some short periods of UPward spurts, there can also be long period of drawdown that make it difficult to do anything beyond either just HODLing through the rough period or adding to the position during the extended drawdown periods.

Quote from: spectre71 on October 24, 2023, 01:55:01 AM

Yes. They are not mutually exclusive.

Yes. Some of the practices regarding trading and investing could overlap, but it also quite helpful to attempt to consider them in variations of their more pure form in order to also understand some of the areas in which they might overlap.

Quote from: BALIK on October 24, 2023, 03:52:05 AM

Quote from: hypothetical on October 23, 2023, 04:19:40 PM

Which one is better if I want to invest and trade bitcoins.

As a beginner, investing and holding is better than trading when your knowledge is zero. You can combine both if you have enough time for them, you don't have to choose just one and no one is forcing you to do that. Divide your capital in half to hold bitcoin and the other half for daily trading or divide it in the ratio you feel is right for you. Personally, I don't spend all my time on the market so I just hold and the rest of the time I work on my businesses. Whether you hold or trade, don't just depend on the market, always have a job with outside income that will be good for your investments.

Probably the newbie trader should mostly invest, but if he cannot resist trading, then he could limit his budget to trade up to 5% of the size of his BTC stash for learning purposes, and surely if he is adventurous, then maybe he could do up to 10% of the size of his BTC stash, but alloting 50% to trading as you suggest seems totally crazy, even for an experienced trader.. but yeah people do play with their BTC stash in those kinds of ways, and if there are not fairly stringent and reasonable limits in place (that surely can get adjusted from time to time), the allotment of how much to trading versus how much to investing becomes one slippery slope that largely devolves into gambling and likely loss of everything, or close to it... so just say no to such nonsense by attempting to set reasonable and reasoned limits right from the start rather than just winging it with some outrageous 50/50 kind of allocation.... don't get me wrong, 50/50 might work out for someone who is either really experienced or who might say 50/50 of new capital can be divided in that way, but not 50/50 of the whole BTC position... that comes off as crazy and/or like degenerate gambling.. and surely many folks who get into trading are degenerate gamblers to be trading such a great investment like bitcoin in the first place seems crazy.. even though trading and gambling with shitcoins does not necessarily seem as crazy, on the surface..

Quote from: LittleBitFunny on October 24, 2023, 08:28:18 AM

Quote from: Sim_card on October 24, 2023, 08:09:56 AM

I see trading as a waste of time and lack of rest of mind, all the time you are reading charts and looking at bitcoin price and at the end, you might still run at loss. Trading comes with little profit and it is very risky, because the probability of running at loss is higher than making profit. Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme due to its volatile nature. One of the basic concept of bitcoin is that you should only invest the the amount of money that you can afford to lose, and that you should invest for a long period of time. This is because if you invest with the amount that you can afford to lose, you wouldn't panic and sell your coins when bitcoin price goes below your entry point, you will ignore that fear and leave your bitcoin in your wallet. The best way to make profit on bitcoin is to go on a long term bitcoin journey and use DCA method regularly to increase your bitcoin, because bitcoin price will keep pumping till infinity.

It also cannot be said that bitcoin trading is a waste of time and money. Just because we can't profit from trading doesn't mean others can't either. I couldn't do that either, but I remember even on our forum there were some people claiming that they could make money from trading and even consider it a source of income to support their families. That proves that not everyone will lose money when trading.

Trading or investing long-term depends on each person's preferences, you are a long-term holder but you should not say trading is bad. You and I can't make money trading, but maybe OP is better than us?

I think that you are better off to assume that someone is either not profitable or that they are doing worse than a simple DCA strategy if they are living off of trading, absence strong and convincing evidence to the contrary... and sure there is no reason to grill anyone but to have them back up their claims and figure out when they started, and then project out DCA and see how it compares to where they are at. in terms of percentages. There is no reason that anyone necessarily needs to get into personal specifics, but if they are claiming to be profitable, they better have some numbers otherwise, I am going to take it with a pretty BIG ass grain of salt... meaning that I am probably going to believe that they are not beating DCA.. especially if we start to get into comparisons of 6 years or longer.. It is like the gambler who conveniently tells you about all of the wins, but doesn't account for the losses.

Quote from: Finestream on October 24, 2023, 01:37:53 PM

Quote from: hypothetical on October 23, 2023, 04:19:40 PM

All of us who are involved in cryptocurrency have heard and know to some extent about investing and trading.But I know that there are risks in investing and trading.To do these you need to know some basic things and gain experience.The main difference between investing and trading is the investment period, methodology, risk-taking propensity. Whether you are an investor or a trader depends on your financial needs and investment goals. Investing is long-term and involves low risk, while trading is short-term and involves high risk. Both methods can be profitable if the right strategy is adopted.
Which one is better if I want to invest and trade bitcoins.

Normally, beginners engage first in bitcoin investing not only because it's low risk, but it's more stress free and only needs short preparation before you are capable to invest. As long as you know you understand your investment, and you are aware on how to secure your bitcoin in your wallet for long term, then I don't think it will be hard for you to succeed on your investment. But with bitcoin trading, not only its high risky, but it also needs long term preparation and practice so you can be well-skilled and experienced in trading. And since it's high risk, the more you put bigger capital, the higher the risk of losing. That is why if you want to trade, do it with a small amount of capital first.

However, you can also do both if you want. That is if you are well capable to combat the losses because you have obtained adequate knowledge and experience on both aspects. Both have actually their own risks, and you can only lessen their risks if you possess the right attitude and use the perfect strategies that will work on them.

Position size too, and so the overall budget should be looked at when determining how much to put into bitcoin, and probably less than 1% would be allowed for trading while learning and then perhaps go up to 5% at a later date and maybe maximize out at 10% absent some ways of dealing with the losses and the gains and especially in bitcoin, an underlying presumption should be that bitcoin is going up and going up forever, so the trades need to account for that, even if there are well times in which BTC has decently long periods of down and sideways, too.