Quote from: efialtis on October 26, 2023, 09:01:49 PM

Hello all,

for reasons of transparency, I would like to give a status update at this point - as everyone knows by now, I am considered a fair-minded person both personally and in business, who is always interested in solutions and is willing to compromise. This was also the case with Leebet, which, as you can read in my review, I rated quite positively. All the more unfortunate, therefore, is what followed my review. Anyway, let's get down to business and then, of course, address the statement from LeeBet posted today, which is unfortunately absolutely insufficient.

Before I go into detail: The (of course) only reason why you don't pay a player their winnings immediately is that you either can't (lack the financial resources) or you don't want to - plain and simple. There is no other scenario and any ramblings on this subject are logically "bs"...

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I am in contact with my affiliate manager at LeeBet via Skype and finally got some feedback last night.

I was told the following regarding this "case":

The rules state that there is a monthly withdrawal limit of 10k and this cannot be changed. Such rules would prevent new casinos from going bust, all well and good if it weren't for the BUT... but I'll get to that later. I was assured that they would not refuse to pay me my winnings and that they would keep up communication with me.

They didn't understand the blacklisting, because my review was quite promising and besides, I was granted two withdrawals, which would show that this is a legitimate and honest casino. I would not be denied my winnings, they would communicate with me. My winnings would not be held as hostage, this rule is necessary to allow such a new venture to continue to function.

It would be okay to communicate to my players/visitors in the future that there is this low monthly payout limit. Again, my money would not be held hostage and my statement that LeeBet's behavior is unethical would be untrue, as they would simply be following their rules, which the player would agree to when registering. They would communicate with players and find solutions, see my first payout.

I was asked where my statements that there were no payout restrictions, and that payouts of more than 20k would be made within a maximum of 30 days, came from.

My answers:

You have publicly communicated that winnings of more than 20k euros are made within max. 30 days - is this statement no longer true?

You have publicly communicated that you can financially compete with the industry giants - is this statement no longer true?

I appreciate the fact that someone is now trying to find a solution with me.

Be honest - a 10k monthly withdrawal limit while accepting bonus buys of 10k? Does this make sense? Is this ethical?

I am a fair and honest guy and not a spammer or abuser and I believe I am a good person. But when people mistreat me, I take action and with BTCGOSU, after all, this is my job and my only reason for being. Pointing out to people what to expect when they play X, Y, Z in crypto casino - unfortunately, there is no authority doing this job in our industry.

LeeBet Answers:

The statements with the withdrawals would be looked into

They would understand my situation and point of view and ask me to be willing to compromise, I should see it that way...: I have won a remarkable sum of money and will receive this money in parts every month. It's as if they were paying me a salary for being their player.

They would want to prove (to me) that it is an honest casino that maintains good relations with both players and partners.

My answers:

You can easily prove this - I ask for a public statement (among others on Bitcointalk) with the following points:

Clarify that players can withdraw a maximum of 10k per month.

Clarify that I get paid the 3.5 BTC in 10k/month installments and that I am protected from my account being closed/blocked/deleted.

In fact, I'm willing to accept the installments (as silly as that is), but I want everything to be fair and transparent - that's the only way I can get back to promoting you on BTCGOSU. I appreciate it when a business partner shows insight and is willing to learn, as long as it's for the good of the players.

LeeBet Responses:

Very good, this will be passed on to the team and they are confident that there will be an agreement.

LeeBet feedback today:

The story with Bitcointalk has been resolved. The problem was that the information was not updated. Everything will be taken care of today or tomorrow.

My responses:

Does this mean you guys agree with my points completely? If so, and as soon as this happens publicly, I will take care of everything.

LeeBet replies:

We will make a post on Bitcointalk about the rule changes and inform our community about your win, so our players will know about you this will serve as a guarantee for you because, in case of non-payment, we risk our reputation. But that won't happen, this is a casino that is honest with its players.

A little while later, the post from LeeBet came up, which unfortunately is not good enough. I contacted my contact person directly and informed him that this post would not address my case in any way and was, if anything, absolutely superficial. I also asked for confirmation that the 3.5 BTC would of course serve as the basis for my withdrawals and that this would also have to be communicated. If the bitcoin price goes up in time, there should be no nasty surprises and further problems, after all, it will be a very long time with a monthly limit of 10k. I also pointed out that the first part of the LeeBet post in particular made absolutely no sense - why? I'll comment on that briefly now.

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The LeeBet team wishes to inform you that we recently updated our Terms of Service (ToS) to align with the principles of fair and transparent gaming for LeeBet users and to comply with the laws and regulations governing business operations in the field.

Unfortunately, this statement is completely off the mark.

LeeBet operates via an offshore company from Curacao and has no license (not even a shit license like the one from Curacao).

LeeBet is not regulated and monitored by any authority.

How can it be said that they have changed their ToS to ensure fair and transparent gambling and to comply with the laws and regulations in the industry? Side note: In no country in the world is it legal to offer real money gambling without a license (not even in Curacao, by the way, where the company behind Leebet is based).

In any case, there is no question of fairness and transparency in my specific case.

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As a result, some of the points mentioned in this message are no longer valid, especially those related to our KYC and AML policies, the use of VPNs, and the procedures for processing substantial winnings.

Meaningless - see above. Talking about KYC, AML, etc. while being unregulated, unlicensed, and then acting as this operation does is almost cheeky. What exactly this is supposed to mean I don't understand anyway - a backdoor way of getting potentially uncomfortable players out of the way? Food for thought.

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We would like to assure you that all players who have played and won on LeeBet have received, are receiving, and will continue to receive their rightfully earned funds in full.

LeeBet remains unwavering in its commitment to fair and just gaming principles.

So you will receive your money even if it takes 1 year, 3 years, or 5 years - is that correct? In principle, I have already agreed that I can overlook such a poor term - but only if there is a clear statement and work is done accordingly in the background. It is not acceptable that even now (at the time of writing this post) 5k Bonus Buys are possible on slots such as Gates of Olympus and Sugar Rush (I just checked them quickly) - this means that a player can easily spend 5k in a few seconds but can pay out a maximum of 10k in a month - let's consider that even games like the two mentioned (with comparatively low Max Wins of 5000x) can bring in a Max Win of 250k with a 5k Bonus Buy. Sweet Bonanza at least seems to have had the limit reduced to 1k, although even that is still far too much based on a 10k/month rule.

I hope that tomorrow will finally bring clarity and that there will be good news for both sides - this casino has potential but it also has to act ethically.

Dear user,

I will do my best to address your questions and comment on some of the concerns you've raised. I am aware of all your inquiries, whether you made them while communicating with a member of our team or in this public conversation.

First and foremost, I want to emphasize that we are committed to discussing matters in the public domain. We stand firmly by our pledge to provide quality service to all users in accordance with our publicly stated terms of service. We are prepared to be accountable for everything that occurs and, in specific cases, delve into the reasons behind certain limitations.

As you've mentioned, we are committed to paying out your winnings in compliance with the rules and regulations that have been clearly outlined and published. Currently, there is a withdrawal limit of $10,000 per month. You rightly noted that this is in place to support the secure and balanced growth of our platform.

This limitation is explicitly stated in section 9.6 of our publicly available Terms of Service (ToS), and here's the exact text for your reference:
"9.6. In cases when your balance is at least 10 times larger than the total sum of your deposits, you will be limited to € 5,000 (or currency equivalent) for withdrawal per month. In other cases the maximum withdrawal amount per month is € 10,000."

So, I fail to understand your concerns about us not informing players about this information. It's public and readily accessible to everyone on our official website and in our documentation section.

While you mentioned finding an old blog post from several months ago and referencing it, that doesn't make sense because we cannot edit every outdated or irrelevant message. It's simply impractical, much like trying to amend your one-and-a-half-thousand messages or blog responses, wouldn't you agree?

Instead, during the registration process, we require every player to review and agree to our terms of service. It's mandatory for all players, and no one can commence playing on LeeBet without confirming their familiarity and agreement with the terms of service. This ensures that players are aware of the principles governing the withdrawal of substantial winnings from the outset.

Wouldn't you agree that your demand for us to publicly announce this is unreasonable, considering it's already public information that's much easier to find than an old answer on BitcoinTalk?

Furthermore, you are requesting that we publish information stating that you, as a specific player with a particular ID, won a specific amount on a particular date and asking us to guarantee that we will pay you your prize.
This request appears peculiar because we have never given you any reason to doubt that your winnings will be fully credited and that you can withdraw them smoothly, just as you've done in the past.

Don't you find it odd to ask for a public guarantee of payment for an individual player when we already guarantee payments to all players without public announcements?

In any case, we value you as our user and aim to allay your concerns. We have personally and publicly assured you that you will receive your winnings, and we have provided information regarding the actual win, as mentioned earlier. We have also notified users that the old message is no longer valid and marked it as such.

Therefore, your concerns seem to stem more from your excessive apprehension and dissatisfaction rather than from any doubts about our honesty and integrity.

To sum it up:
1. Information regarding a $20,000 monthly withdrawal limit is no longer valid and has been addressed in an old message and a separate post.
2. Information about the $10,000 monthly withdrawal limit has always been public and doesn't require additional reminders, as it's part of the terms and conditions agreed upon during registration.
3. Public guarantees of payment to individual players seem strange, given that we already guarantee payments to all players without public announcements. Nevertheless, we've even done this to ensure your satisfaction.

I hope I've addressed all your questions and managed to alleviate your concerns regarding the situation at hand. If you have any further inquiries or need additional clarification, please don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you for engaging in this discussion, and we look forward to continuing to serve you as a valued member of our platform.