Quote from: philipma1957 on November 02, 2023, 02:59:47 AM

we did get over 36k on some exchanges.

Not on bitstamp, so it hardly matters unless you are wanting to make some kind of a point that goes beyond merely hyping how exchange variance exists.. which is a BIG whooptie-doo in and of itself.. and another thing bitstamp got to $35,968, so with all practicality it is nearly $36k. .but at the same time, it is not quite $36k.. so there is that, too.

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 02, 2023, 02:59:47 AM

my thoughts are we are repeating the sept oct nov dec 2015 pattern

There is something off about trying to make that comparison, and I am not even sure if it is worth it to waste time pointing out the differences..

should I take the bait?

think about it. .early the whole of 2015 was at the bottom, so the end of 2015 was coming out of the bottom.. .in our case today, we came out of the bottom of our low around January/February 2023.. so yeah, it is not exactly the same, but we were in the coming out of the bottom and the uncertainties of whether we were out of the bottom around 10 months ago.. so maybe if you say that we are in a kind of late 2016 situation, then I might buy it.. at least late 2016 is a closer parallel, if that is what you are trying to compare something that is parrallel rather than something that is not quite parallel and not quite fitting...

O.k... I did it.

I responded, even though I did not want to... I was forced... woe is me..

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 02, 2023, 02:59:47 AM

if so 42k by nov 30 and 48k by dec 31.

That still could end up working out, even though you are starting from a seemingly questionable foundation.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 01, 2023, 05:13:46 PM

That's pretty whimpy of you. I am not really surprised, though.

Historically (or in the past), several times, you have engaged in similar diverting and averting, so it is not like out of your play book to evade and avoid some shrapnel heading your way (or already head your way?)...

I’ll say it again: I do not debate with AI’s
Debating with you is pretty much pointless. On the other hand, if I can cherry pick things to my [thesis] advantage, I will.

Who is debating? We are just discussening about whether we should debate or not? Maybe we should ask a friend? A mutual friend? Do we have a mutual friend? Maybe someone (me, you or a neutral) could propose a list of names with an odd number of names, and then we will strike names from the list until we reach a mutual friend.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 31, 2023, 10:09:55 PM

Sure, there may well be some forum members acting as if they are real people who are interested in promoting bitcoin ideals of freedom and independence of ideas and money, but they might not be as bitcoin-aligned as they are presenting themselves... WE cannot really know, but I would imagine that there are quite a few state actors and even deep state actors here.. but at the same time, it is hard to know with any kind of certainty... so each of should try to be a bit careful in terms of aspects of our OPsec.

Before COVid we could only speculate.
After COVid we can know for sure, because these fuckers really exposed themselves and their malign intentions.
Notice how they all rhyme at the same tune at the same time?

Some members might have changed their mind or even adjusted some of their thinking on the topic at various points in time, and whether there was some kind of a conspiracy might be another story... but sure, you might be correct to hate on some members based on the way that they talked about that issue, but at the same time, some folks might still be torn on the topic, and surely there are more folks who are concerned about ways in which governments (and status quo powers that be are wanting to control us and even increase restrictions in various ways based on made up - or exaggerated situations). I am not claiming that I know, and surely I was not as adamantly against some of the virus related measures in the very beginning. even though surely we could see right from the start that some of the matters were not really adding up or making a lot of sense, including how heavily things were shut down right from the start... which surely is like a self-inflicted sabotage of the economy without seemingly good justification beyond assertions that "China is doing it" and hey, not that even people were claiming to follow china while at the same time having so many governments also caving to seemingly imposed and extraordinary "standards"

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

That said, can we agree that certain tech inovations of the past decades, started off from the industrial-military complex?
The internet? GPS? The public does take some time to catch up with these inovations, probably after TPTB can control them in a more efficient manner.
[insert digital currencies]
I think “Bitcoin” was meant to be a) TPTB elite coin,

Does not hurt to be skeptical, but we still have various personal decisions including whether we are going to allocate any value to it, and some of us are already in bitcoin for a decently long time, and it is improving our lives through number go up technology.. but also we could diversify out of bitcoin if we believe there is some other and/or better place to hold value and at this time, there do seem to be some ways in which people can benefit from having bitcoin.. but yeah are the HODLers going to end up going to jail? Maybe in some jurisdictions, but it is getting Bigger and BIGGER, so sure there could be various attacks on bitcoin and on individuals, but still as individuals we are still left with choices regarding whether we get into it if we have not already gotten in and also whether we get out if we are already in and various options in between.. I don't necessarily see any reason to consider that I am personally not going to be advantaged by bitcoin and that a lot of other people (including poor people) are going to be advantaged by bitcoin, including that it seems to be the case that we may well be in the middle of one of the greatest (if not the greatest) wealth transfers in history, and so I have some trouble buying theories that TPTB have as much of a hand in bitcoin as you seem to be implying.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

b) a digital testing ground/benchmark. At least at its conception.
What the NSA fuckers did not take into account, was the anarchist soul of its leading(?) developer on this project.

Could be but seems a bit much of a fantasy to me.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

He understood that the future would be grim if allowed to roll out like that, and decided to do something about it, unleashing Bitcoin to the world.

that also could be, and would not necessarily be a bad thing under that kind of a framework.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Since then, governments are trying to catch up, call it China or the US, and definitely trying to control the sentiment surrounding this inovation.
#rogue
#intelligence.fuckup
#cypherpunked

That also does not add up Mr. Antisthenes - especially if some kind of a rogue government agent released bitcoin onto the world, then governments would have been more hip to it from the start and maybe even tried to attack bitcoin more aggressively in its first 5 years or so, but after about 5-8 years, bitcoin kind of spun out of control and way more world-wide.. so why did they not try to stamp out bitcoin in its first 5 years or so?

From my lame layman's perspective, your rogue govt. actor theory as you have currently presented it seems to have quite a few logical and/or factual holes.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 31, 2023, 10:09:55 PM

Does not take away that there are good people here too.. and also in other places around bitcoin circles, and sometimes controversies might get some folks being accused of being deep state actors.. and still not easy to know... even if some people might meet person to person and even sometimes meet other bitcoin personalities (or forum members) at various converences, or real world meet-ups.

Regardless of what people think that I am in these here parts, I have zero malicious intentions, and I love Bitcoin for what it is: Freedom

Oh? You are one of the good guys? who would have thunk? Are you related to craig wright, but just on the bitcoin favoring side rather than the scam favoring side? meaning that you supposedly have good intentions, but you just don't present well? not that the twat Craig wright has good intentions, but surely he does not present well, even if he were to supposedly have good intentions.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Now, all the above is purely speculative of course, and I will be the first one to point it out, should evidence arise that it’s not so.

Evidence has already arisen that it is not so, because you have not explained why the government was not more aggressive in bitcoin's first 5-8 years of existence? Do you want the answer? The answer is because they hardly had any fucking clue about what bitcoin was and/or what it meant and/or its significance. Sure some persons in the government and some agencies maybe did realize what bitcoin was about, but they did not have enough clout to muster up any kind of an attack upon bitcoin in those earlier years.. .. and furthermore, bitcoin ends up being a kind of sly roundabout way in which the money can be changed into a more honest system.. hence bitcoin came from the grassroots up, even if some smart folks were likely involved satoshi as an individual and/or satoshi as a group.. thank you satoshi.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 31, 2023, 11:06:16 PM

It is good to have some creative thinking, yet there seems to be quite a few weaknesses from that kind of a framework to believe that the government started bitcoin, but then it kind of got away from them..

If that’s not the case, then … well … fuck, Houston we have a problem!
Call me a hopeless romantic, if you must.

I don't see any meaningful problem at this time, even though I see some of the various outlying "conspiracy" theories that could potentially be true but still, at this time, do not seem to have very high odds of being true.. in contrast to the case that bitcoin does happen to be a kind of miracle discovery (invention) that has the potential to resolve a lot of issues and/or at least to make the world a better place in a lot of regards as various fiat systems are likely going to continue to crash and bitcoin is going to continue to absorb a lot of the value, even though it could take 50 to 200 years to play out depending on a variety of different kinds of scenarios, including some probable ongoing and continued battles along the way..

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 31, 2023, 11:06:16 PM

What about moon landing?

What about it?
#fake.as.fuck

Seems fake.. but still that was a bit of an excited utterance coming from me.. like the first thing that came into my wee widdo mind during the Rorschach test that you were seeming to administer in my direction.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 31, 2023, 11:06:16 PM

yes governments are seeming to lie more and more and even seeming to get more desperate in some of their attempts to want to control information, which seems to be one of the reasons that there are more and more efforts to create impressions that free flow of information is not a good thing.

Happy to agree with you on this one.

And bitcoin seems to be a kind of life raft, and sure there still might be other kinds of life rafts out there because there might be some folks who are able to weather various crashes in fiat systems but it seems better to have at least some feet into the bitcoin world, and personally I am not necessarily an advocate of putting everything into bitcoin, even though there is some fakeness in continuing to use some of the fiat systems.. but we only live so long, and so who does not appreciate some HLB, even if we might be attempting to stand up for various aspects of the bitcoin system too... I mean, if someone has more than a hundred bitcoin, then likely that person is in a pretty good place, and the amount of bitcoin needed seems to be going down and even seeming to approach the 62 bitcoin status in these days, even though there could be some lifestyle and geographical variance, too.

Quote from: Antisthenes on November 02, 2023, 10:15:48 AM

Quote from: Bananington on November 02, 2023, 12:15:51 AM

Expecting this too, but will not be surprised if it does not happen yet, or if the price drops. I have experienced too much in this market, almost nothing surprises me anymore.

Well hello, absolutely love your username.