Quote from: un_rank on Today at 08:15:55 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on Today at 03:01:49 PM

Exactly! Plus Sneijder, Forlan and others who in different years were stronger than Messi, but they did not receive a prize, but he did. That's right - Messi is an ordinary player who was promoted by corrupt officials.

You are confusing the exact same year, 2010. Your entire focus seems to be on the world cup so I assume that is the year you are talking about.
Stop mixing reality up to suit your agenda.
Then explain what you mean by "stronger"? I have already mentioned that reality is not what you think but what it is. So you do not simply say team A is better than B and that becomes it.

Also, did those corrupt officials score the goals and create the assists he made?
Did they break the records he broke and create the magic he did on the ball?

Stop lying, I’m not writing about one year (or tournament) when everything can be attributed to randomness. There is a whole period from 2008-2012 when Xavi and Iniesta achieved their greatest achievement - two European Champion titles in a row and a World Cup. Can you name teams that achieved the same? This is the real magic and legendary achievement and breaking of records.

At the same time, Messi failed at the World Cup and was not an ordinary player at the America's Cup, you can come up with different excuses but these are simple facts.
Thus, during this period, both Xavi and Iniesta were 1000 times better than Messi, but they received zero Ballon d'Or, and he received 4 Grin

Quote from: un_rank on Today at 08:15:55 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on Today at 03:01:49 PM

It’s good that you talked about reality, because it was in reality that Xavi and Iniesta won the World Cup and two European Championships in just 4 years (a legendary achievement) and Messi failed without them.

Totally different National team sides. Your points are really showing you to have a poor perspective of football.
Spain had a complete team at the time and had a great manager. Argentina on the other hand simply had lots of good attackers but not a complete team.
Messi is not a national team, neither was Xavi or Iniesta, and as good as any player was they need a system to function.

These stories have already been discussed here: when the team won, it was Messi’s merit, when it lost, it was not Messi’s fault Grin

Cool story.

Quote from: un_rank on Today at 08:15:55 PM

Quote from: KTChampions on Today at 03:01:49 PM

Yes, yes, you can repeat all this many times, but why can’t you explain what happened in the period 2008-2012? Xavi, Iniesta and Messi have the same achievements at the club level, and are absolutely cosmically different at the national team level. At the same time, Messi collected all the awards even though he was monstrously worse than Iniesta and Xavi.

You are the one repetitively comparing Xavi and Iniesta to Messi and linking the glory days of Spain. If I wanted to indulge your ridiculous argument, I will say Xavi and Iniesta failed at 2014 world cup, while Messi got to the final and won the golden ball. But it still balls down to the team, Spain at that time had reached an epoch and could not go beyond it till they had a change in system.

You can write all the stories and absurdities you want, but you can’t escape the facts: Xavi and Iniesta did great without Messi and achieved a legendary achievement, but without them he first failed, and then could not be above average. I suppose now you will write anything about any other year but will you ignore 2008-2012? Roll Eyes

Quote from: un_rank on Today at 08:15:55 PM

Monstrously is a heavy word, does not fit anywhere in this conversation really.

Answer one question honestly, Do you think personal achievements are determined more by "personal" performance or team performance?

- Jay -

In a team sport it is very difficult to separate the team from the individual, but here is a rare case when this is possible: everyone we are talking about played in the same club, but in different national teams. And the fact is that without Xavi and Iniesta, Messi was just a gray player, did not stand out at all, while Xavi and Iniesta achieved something legendary.

And that's not all: Messi had phenomenal goal statistics in those years while playing for Barcelona, he scored something like 80% of the club's goals +- and scored almost a goal per game. Seems incredible, right? (I'm speaking as a Messi fan haha). But the most incredible thing (for Messi fans) is that he was completely replaceable.

Villa scored 5 goals in 7 games at the 2010 World Cup (first place in the list of scorers). At the 2008 European Championship, Villa scored 4 goals in 6 games (sole first place in the list of scorers). If we take the qualifying rounds for the World Cup and the European Championship, Villa has stats of 18 goals in 21 games.

Does this statistic remind you of anything? Roll Eyes

Whose merit here do you think is greater: Xavi and Iniesta or Villa (who apparently should have received all the Ballon d'Ors in those years)?
Fanboys gives a paradoxical answer to this question: Messi Grin

But the facts remain facts: Messi was the player that was replaceable by almost a random player.