Quote from: jrrsparkles on November 04, 2023, 08:04:11 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 04, 2023, 02:58:01 PM

[edited out]

This is a fair clarification in terms of some kinds of investment principles and practices are going to be generally applicable across all forms of investing... There still are needs to distinguish between timelines, which you seem to be pointing out... and so there might be some kinds of investments that people make that have very short timelines, and so the shorter the timeline, then maybe the distinction between investing and trading (even gambling) will become blurred if people are getting in and out of some of their investments because they consider them as short term plays.

Parting goals into long-term and short-term can also be applied to HODL, for example, let's take one year as short-term and 10 years as long-term and their goal is to accumulate 5BTC. It is important to have a goal of accumulating a certain amount for every year according to their risk tolerance then only it is possible for them to achieve their ultimate goal of accumulating 5BTC.

If they don't have any plan but only have the goal of accumulating 5BTC at the end of 10 years their goal may look out of their reach so set the tone gradually then only it is possible to reach great heights as a bitcoin retail investor.
[/quote]

Surely I appreciate that goals can be set, and surely we have to consider what we are able to do in the short term, and perhaps continue to work towards longer term goals, so yeah, maybe every year or even more frequently, we are assessing whether our current plans are bringing us in the right direction and if we believe that we are making progress towards our longer term goals that might have a lot of variables to reach the longer term goals, but with the shorter term goals, we know what is in front of us right now and we can work towards that.

A brand new person into bitcoin could realistically set a goal to try to get to 5 BTC in 10 years, so then s/he may need to consider how to get there, and surely s/he might have current cashflows that might allow him to invest $100 per week into bitcoin, but so then after 52weeks, such person would have had invested $5,200 into bitcoin, so that might not seem realistic for getting up to 5 BTC in 10 years, so there will need to be some attempts to increase income and/or decrease expenses, so maybe if there end up being ways to get the investment amount up from $100 per week to $1k per week, then the 5 BTC in 10 years becomes more possible, but it still might take a while to be able to reasonably get to such goal if the $100 per week is already a bit of a struggle.

Each person has to attempt to set goals in reasonable ways that are achievable, which may be part of the reason that you had suggested having shorter term and longer term goals, and the shorter term goal of this particular person might be trying to figure out how to get his/her disposable (discretionary) income to go up from $100 per week to $1k per week, and if it might take 1-2 years to accomplish such shorter term goal, then maybe the goal of reaching 5 BTC in 10 years is seeming more realistic, but if the person stays down at $100 per week, then there may well need to be some other thoughts and/or perhaps changing of the longer term goal to become more realistic..

and I am not even sure if I would consider 10 years as a reasonable long term goal if we are talking about finances and we are talking about someone who might be new to bitcoin, but if someone is already investing for many years, which you suggested to be your situation @jrrsparkles, and I look at your forum registration and it is around the same as mine... and I had a bit more than 20 years investing prior to my registering with the forum and getting started with bitcoin. So surely timelines are going to vary based on age and also there could be considerations of other investments and various other learnings from past strategies - and surely how many BTC that we might hold could make some difference if we are saying that we want our first 5 BTC within 10 years or if we might feel that we want to add 5 BTC to our existing investment portfolio in 10 years, to the extent that it would be necessary to add 5 BTC to a portfolio in the next 10 years for someone who might already have several BTC in his/her investment portfolio.

Quote from: summonerrk on November 04, 2023, 08:17:05 PM

I agree that we shouldn’t waste your time on anything other than Bitcoin. I believe that even if he showed himself poorly in the moment with the Ordinals, his price will fly into the sky in any case, even if it takes many years. Even then, it will be ranked as the number one rare cryptocurrency. Therefore, my faith in him is strong.
I believe that the line between a trader and a holder is very thin. Yes, it lies in the frequency of transactions in the market. But if I can buy once a month with a pending order at the lows, and once a month sell at the highs (rarely too) - am I a holder or a trader?

I doubt that the line is as thin as you are making it out to be. Sounds like you are a trader, even though it seems that your goal is to accumulate bitcoin, but if you are fucking around with your whole stash that would be pretty messed up. We likely need a few more details regarding what are you doing once a month with these buys and sells and whether you are religious about it with a system and if you might have a main holding stash or if you are just loosey goosey about the whole thing. then seems like you are a trader.... but if you are ONLY playing around with less then 5% of your stash, then it might be a bit more ambiguous regarding what you are.. .. but you ahve to figure out how much you are holding. and it has to be more than 50% or probably even more than 90% before you are going to start to fall into the HODLer category rather than a trader category.

The punchline is that more details are needed, and each of us might categorize these matters differently, even though I doubt that the line is as fine as you are seeming to suggest it to be merely because you are wanting to trade but still call yourself a HODLer.

Quote from: philipma1957 on November 04, 2023, 09:37:37 PM

or 4000 usd worth of doge turns into 1.4 million usd

which happen from 2019 to 2021

First of all. Fuck shitcoins.

Second, this is a bitcoin thread.

Third, the mere fact that some shitcoins had certain kinds of high performance and/or pump and dump scenarios neither means that they are going to repeat or that it is a good idea to be fucking around with them as if they were to have some kind of similar kind of value as our one and only true savior, king daddy.

Fourth, hopefully for your own good, you (or anyone else) are (is) NOT too distracted by that nonsense.

Quote from: Roseline492 on November 04, 2023, 10:03:42 PM

Quote from: Patrol69 on November 04, 2023, 09:46:47 AM

Everything needs a proper plan. No matter what you do, if you plan ahead of time, you'll make more mistakes and feel haphazard.

I agree with you, actually the main factors that determines every successful business is planning, however that's why they said "he who fails to plan, plans to fail", planing is very essential that without it a business could fail.

One of the major factor behind every investment failure is improper planning, because is not possible for someone to just wake up one morning and decided to invest on Bitcoin without putting something in consideration such as knowing the potential of your investment, having a diversified source in case others did not work, knowing the risk and how to avert it and most importantly always having a reserve funds.

I agree with everything you are saying here Roseline492, except that I still think that no coiners need to get started as soon as possible in their action plans in regards to bitcoin. And if they are low coiners, then they also might need to consider whether they are being aggressive enough... but at the same time, all of the considerations that you say are important, but at the same time, it is important to get started with acting upon the plan fairly soon, even if the beginning part of action might just involve low amounts of investing into bitcoin of about $10 a week or so while engaging in learning and figuring out and organizing one's own individual psychological and financial factors.

Quote from: YUriy1991 on Today at 02:52:04 AM

I also follow the development of discussions regarding DCA techniques and methods and this is seen as capable of producing modest returns later, even though Bitcoin is now selling for tens of times its price at the beginning of 2017.

Yes.. Even though there are no guarantees that future BTC performance is even going to get close to past performance, it still remains important to keep in mind that people who were investing in bitcoin in 2017 were buying way less than 10% of today's price (so prior to October 2017 less than $3,500), and those investing in bitcoin in 2015, were paying less than 10% of the 2017 prices (bitcoin was in the mid $200s for most of 2015), and prior to 2013, they were paying way less than 10% of 2015's prices (before 2013, bitcoin had only had very short boughts (pretty rare times) that is was above $25.

Still does not exactly tell us where we are going today, yet even if bitcoin's upside potential might not be as great in terms of percentage points, bitcoin does seem to retain a quite strong investment thesis in regard to where it's price might be going from here.. even if it may well not go up from here.. but there are also no guarantees that there will be further down from here, either... even while at the same time, many folks likely realize that further down seem to be buying the dip opportunities, if they do end up happening from here.

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 04:54:38 AM

Quote from: Mia Chloe on November 04, 2023, 06:39:55 PM

[edited out]

By investing and holding Bitcoin we mean long term hold. As an investor you will never get any good out of your investment if you hold Bitcoin short term. Your-mine investment style so that I invest in Bitcoin and sell my investment whenever I want does not fulfill the original purpose of the investment. Short-term Bitcoin holdings are better called trading than holdings because short-term holdings mean that you will sell your investment whenever the price of Bitcoins rises slightly, it is like full trading. If we invest, we should aim to invest for the long term.

Even though it is not guaranteed and it is not really knowable with certainty, there tends to be a certain kind of compounding that occurs with longer term investments, so that folks who have been in an investment long enough might start to recognize that their investment is going up more than their original investment amount in short periods of time.

So for example, if a person spent 3 or 4 years accumulating bitcoin between 2014 and 2017, that person may well have ended up accumulating more than 100 BTC for right around $1k each, so the total amount invested would be $100k, and so we can see if someone happens to have 100 bitcoin, then every time the BTC price goes up $1k, then the value of the person's holdings goes up the full amount that s/he had invested into BTC, and part of the power of that comes from having a lot of time in the market, which we likely realize that the more that BTC prices go up, then $1k becomes a smaller and smaller percentage of BTC's price, so it becomes easier and easier for BTC to go up $1k in a very short period of time, and it is quite likely soon going to become the case that BTC prices are going to be able to go up $10k per day on some of the more upwardly volatile days... so when it ends up happening (which surely is possible to be happening this year or maybe in the coming years, but not inevitable to happen) that would end up being 10x the cost of such person's total investment into bitcoin in one day.

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 04:54:38 AM

After investing we have to harden our mind in such a way that we never sell our investment unless our specific target is met. Investing is an easy task but keeping the investment is very difficult. You may face many hurdles in holding the investment and many financial problems may come but an investor will sell his investment without any means and that is why I said it is very difficult to hold the investment for a long time.

It sometimes can be surprising that someone who might have had been investing $100 per week into bitcoin for years and years, might start to feel like either the $100 per week is not really that much of a burden, or they might also start to lessen the amount invested if they start to feel that they are getting close to their target amount.. including that they might not even need to sell any BTC to start to feel more comfortable to merely have $100 per week that they are no longer putting into bitcoin but are able to spend on whatever they want since they are starting to feel that either they reached their target or they are close enough to their target that they feel at liberties to discontinue putting $100 into bitcoin every week as they had done previously. So what is the target and how to get to the target exactly and judging about whether they have sufficiently gotten to the target may well differ quite a bit from person to person.

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 04:54:38 AM

When we invest to hold our investment for a long time, we have to assume that we don't have the amount of money that we invested in Bitcoin, that is, we have to think that we will not need that money so that we can hold our investment for a long time. .

For sure that is the right mindset, but people get so tempted to dip into their investment by too much and too soon, so it takes quite a bit of discipline to figure out ways NOT to feel any kind of need to dip too much too soon, and I am not even sure if there is a need for complete abstention from dipping into it, but there should be quite a bit of concern regarding depleting too much of the BTC stash too soon merely based on some desires to consume that may well be resolvable in other kinds of ways or maybe even moderating desires to consume too much too soon.

Quote from: NewRanger on Today at 08:53:32 AM

most here I am sure also plan to hold their Bitcoin for at least the next one to 5 years.

We cannot really know what most plan to do, but having a plan 1-5 years should not be considered long term plans... 4-10 years or more, and sure there might be some folks who get into bitcoin and have shorter time-horizons, but those people may well be thinking way too short term, and even 4-5 years might be too short.. yet of course, it is difficult to pigeon-hole everyone in terms of how they should consider their BTC investments and if they consider investing into bitcoin as merely a way to get more fiat, then maybe they will end up gravitating towards 1-5 year periods and believing that 1- 5 years is a long time, when it is not.. especially when it comes to something as potentially volatile as bitcoin and also something that is as revolutionary (and paradigm-shifting) as bitcoin.

Quote from: Lidger on Today at 03:47:56 PM

I don't have as much knowledge about investing as a professional investor but if I have knowledge I can invest in Bitcoin and if I have the patience to hold that investment for a long time I have gained patience and knowledge about investing. I am just waiting to invest maybe soon I will fulfill my investment dream by investing in Bitcoin. The amount of money I want to invest in Bitcoin may not be much but this is the beginning of my investment. I have a lot of plans to invest in my first Bitcoin. I plan to hold my first investment for five years. I am a student and I have a part time job besides my studies from which I earn about 200 dollars every month that's why I dare to keep my investment for 5 years. During these five years I will not only hold my investment but every month I will try to add some amount to my total investment if I have a job for five years. That's why I will hold the investment in five year plan because after five years my graduation will be complete then I will try to do something good with my investment.

Hopefully I can hold on to my investment for a long period of five years and continue to grow my investment every month. I believe that after five years this investment will help me achieve my goals.

There is some smartness to your ideas and there is some dumbness too...

The smartness would be to consider investing into bitcoin on a regular and ongoing basis for 5 years, and from your post, it is difficult to know your expenses... but I would imagine if you are able to invest $10 per week for 5 years, then that would end up being $520 per year and therefore $2,600 after 5 years.

Part of the dumbness of your post is the belief that you need to buy something nice with your investment when you graduate from college.. what a dumbass idea.. and the fact of the matter should be that if you make it through college then your earning potential should increase, depending on if you are able to learn and/or develop marketable skills, but the idea should be to continue to invest into bitcoin and maybe to reconsider what it is that you are striving to achieve at various points in your life based on whether you are able to develop some marketable skills and if you are able to increase your income upon graduation.. then you would be rethinking where you are at based on some new conditions, including but not limited to having had spent 5 years building a bitcoin holdings, too.

Hopefully you learn something in the next 5 years (and don't come out of college as a retard), so that you are not so dumb as to follow through with a cashing out.. but hey you can do whatever you like. You have complete power over your own finances, and even including but not limited to doing dumb stuff, even if you might have started out with some seemingly smarter ideas. There are a lot of young people who graduate from college and think that they know everything, when they don't even understand basic investing principles and/or the power of compounding returns.. which comes from allowing something like a bitcoin investment to continue to ride and perhaps even continuing to add to your already started bitcoin investment once your get out of college and your income presumptively increases at that point or soon thereafter, hopefully.