Quote from: SmartGold01 on November 16, 2023, 04:42:34 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 16, 2023, 03:14:40 PM

there could be some regrets about not having had invested more, but the balance likely also does have to do with being able to stick with the investment.

One thing we always take record at time of maturity (lasted period of investment) we might think we are over investing due to how other needs that surrounds us at the initial stage of investment might think we can't manage the situation at hand, what I also understand during investment is that we may finds it very difficult to increase our investment plan just as you said either by weekly or monthly but it should be in a way that we don't over stressed ourselves knowing too well that we can't go above our capacity or income we received.

There can be several factors to consider the extent to which someone might be overinvested into bitcoin, and even though a person is overinvested, the way that they are overinvested may well not have to end up in putting their own finances in considerable stress or peril, but maybe investing a 20% or 30% allocation into bitcoin rather than your having had planned to invest 10% to 15%, so maybe you are not in peril, but your position size is much larger than what you had planned.

Sure some of this might not make any sense for some of the guys who might ONLY have bitcoin as their ONLY investment, so then they might merely need to think in terms of how much of their cashflow they are putting into bitcoin and likely you mentioned if they are putting their monthly expenses in jeopardy or maybe ONLY having 3 months of an emergency fund rather than 6 months or more.. so some of these questions of being overinvested can be on the margins rather than absolute movements into an irresponsible approach.

Another thing could be that if your bitcoin is getting to levels in which it constitutes 50% or more of your annual income and you have no other investments besides cash, you might need to consider if there might be some ways to diversify without necessarily going into shitcoins.. and sure maybe you can play the BTC accumulatoin to even higher numbers such as 1x or more of your annual income, and perhaps when it starts to get to those kinds of levels if you do not have access to investing into equities, bonds, property or commodities, then the only other thing that you have is cash, and sure some folks will keep some value in cash (maybe the dollar instead of their local fiat), but even keeping in the dollar and/or dollar equivalencies will loose value over the long term, but it may well be one of the better ways of dealing with BTC's volatility if you end up holding so much of your own networth in bitcoin as probably your BTC will continue to grow, and if dollars are the ONLY thing that you are able to hold to offset bitcoin volatility, then you should be holding much more than 3-6 months of emergency expenses, maybe you have to double that, so if the BTC price is dropping you will have that money to buy on dips perhaps having some for buying all the way down to 20% lower than the 200-week moving average.. but even if you are using some of that money for buying bitcoin on dips, you also have your emergency funds that maybe would continue to be larger and so you might not even risk having less than 6 months of an emergency fund once you get to those higher levels of BTC accumulation and if BTC happens to be your only asset.. yeah you want to keep accumulating it, but you have to hold more cash if you have not figured out some other investments (not referring to shitcoins, except maybe less than 10% of the size of your bitcoin holdings)..

Quote from: SmartGold01 on November 16, 2023, 04:42:34 PM

Maybe thinking how I wish their works allows them to earn higher they would have increased their investment plan maybe to make huge return or to increase profits before their expected date of harvest.

You do not seem to be framing this in "long-term" investing kinds of ways. Long term investors do not necessarily need to consider about any harvesting, even though sure they may transition out of accumulation and into maintenance which would likely thereafter start to involve selling on the way up and maybe even making sure that some of your investments are sufficiently diversified.. so the consumption may well be included in there too.. but there would need to be some ways of transitioning into a kind of maintenance, and if that means you are at or near fuck you status, then maybe those could be ways of harvesting, or if maybe you are not thinking in terms of fuck you status, then I am not sure how much we would be on the same page in terms of how to think about the various harvesting or maintenance or just the options that any of us likely have when we have been in bitcoin long enough and we have accumulated enough to be able to experiences some of the extra freedoms that come from transitioning more into maintenance stage riather than accumulation stage.

Quote from: Raflesia on November 16, 2023, 05:21:51 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 16, 2023, 03:14:40 PM

Quote from: Raflesia on November 16, 2023, 01:41:10 PM

There are a few things that I want to correct in this case because however when talking about bitcoin then right now there is no wrong time to buy when we have found what methods or strategies are suitable to do. Many feel that the price is always a benchmark in buying but when we have determined the strategy that is done especially for almost everyone who is here who says DCA actually the price is not always a benchmark because in the end we have to realize that thinking further about the price when we do DCA is just a waste of time because in the end we know that regardless of the price that is going up or down when DCA is done things like that are not the main reference because the point is in DCA not in the price.
In addition, having 1 bitcoin or more is indeed very good but that does not mean we have to have 1 bitcoin as our benchmark as an investor because that kind of thinking makes us too focused on one thing but not thinking about other conditions.
We just have to focus on doing what we can do, no need to peg that we have to collect 1 bitcoin or more as a condition that we are an investor because we are not here to burden ourselves.

It seems to me that there is nothing wrong with having goals, and maybe considering how realistic the goals are and/or what is the reason for something like a 1 BTC goal.. it is a bit of a unit bias kind of a setting, and like I mentioned earlier, if someone were either brand new to bitcoin or just recently beginning to accumulate bitcoin, then having a goal to get to one bitcoin in 10 years, would likely require around $200 per week invested into bitcoin... for those persons who do not have the cash to front load their investment into bitcoin.

So if we attempt to be realistic with our goals, then we may welll also like to have short and medium term goals too that might involve what are we attempting to achieve this year and maybe what are we attempting to achieve in the next 5 years... so in the end we could have several different kinds of short and medium term goals that could be working towards the achievement of the longer term goal that might seem quite far off.. something like 10 years or even having goals of 20 to 30 years is also not unrealistic, even though they might have a lot of complicated steps along the way that might end up causing them to need to be adjusted later down the road if it might appear that we are not on the right track.

Indeed, there is nothing wrong and I also said in my previous writing that it is a good thing but if in the end we are only busy with the goal of reaching the target of 1 bitcoin but without thinking about other conditions it is not something good of course so instead of pegging ourselves to have 1 bitcoin in the investment made it would be better to focus on the strategy we do when buying because in the end whether it ends up at 1 btc or even less than that we have still tried our best so that no regrets will occur. Having a benchmark that we must have at least 1 btc or more in the investment made will actually make us feel burdened by the amount we have to pursue (lack of the amount of btc to collect) rather than being like that it is better to minimize all possibilities by focusing on collecting btc consistently without thinking about how many btc we collect for the ultimate goal.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 16, 2023, 03:14:40 PM

Let's get back to the 1 bitcoin in 10 years goal, and even if a person realizes that there likely needs to be around $200 per week invested into bitcoin in order to make such goal realistic, such person could still maintain such goal for a while even if the first year, s/he had only been able to invest $20 per week, but there may be some visions regarding how the income might be able to be raised and/or how the expenses might be able to be cut in order to bring the weekly amount up to $200 per week. At the same time, if after about 5 years, the average bought per week had only been around $100 per week, then there would be a lot of short fall, and maybe even a need to get the weekly amount up to $400 to $800 in order to be able to still be able to reach the 1 BTC in 10 years goal, and maybe by the time we start to get to 7 or 8 years, there could be some acknowledgement that it might end up taking somewhere between 12 years and 15 years to reach such 1 BTC goal.. so there could be a lot of ways that the aspirational goals end up playing out in terms of perhaps being a bit high.. or even in some other cases, the goal ends up getting reached much sooner than seemed possible, and so adjustments could be made in regards to reaching the goal sooner than expected, and maybe even considering that some of the goals that were created were NOT hard (and/or high) enough.

Now this is the situation that I mean when someone has a target to have 1 bitcoin for example within a certain period of time then it must definitely think about how much budget we have to travel to get to 1 btc within that period of time. If we use the example of $200 in a week then indeed we must be prepared with that nominal regardless of the economy we have while to invest $200 in a week consistently not everyone can which is precisely this will be an obstacle so instead of like that, it is better to focus on the investments that we can and do so as not to hamper our other needs for life as for the amount of btc collected (although not 1 btc) it will not be a problem because we will still be investors and get benefits if we do it the right way.

Well, if we look at the fact that we might ONLY be able to invest $100 or less per week, and then that it would take $200 per week for 10 years to have some kind of chance of reaching 1 BTC, then maybe we have to acknowledge that 1 BTC is not realistic, and maybe we should be shooting for 0.5 BTC or something else that is more reasonable. Sure, there are likely balances between creating realistic goals and also being able to achieve the goals, so there could be some goals that might be out of reach, but they are aspirational goals and we might say to ourselves that it does not seem too likely that I am ever going to get to 1 BTC in 10 years, and so I am shooting for 0.5 BTC in 10 years.. and if I reach 0.5 BTC earlier then, I can reassess the situation.

Another thing might be to exstablish the goal in terms of dollars, so that you might say that I am going to invest between $50 and $250 into bitcoin per week for 10 years, and I expected to on average invest more than $100 per week, so I should be able to have $52k invested into bitcoin after 10 years.. If things go well then I will end up having more than that then amongst the better of the scenarios would be that I could get up to $130k invested, and surely the worse case scenario would be having around $26k invested... but the base case is an expectation of having had invested $52k after 10 years.

That is a flexible goal and it is in terms of dollars rather than in terms of bitcoin, which likely makes more sense especially since it is difficult to know what the BTC price is going to be... and if things change for us along the way, such as our income increases and/or our expenses decrease, then maybe we are able to change the range to be from $150 per week to $400 per week because we have been able to increase our disposable income along the way and to strike a balance that we believe would be better for our situation and allow us to adjust our targets too, depending on when the new plan goes into place, and these kinds of adjustments could end up happening several times within a 10 year time frame.

The extent to which we create too much stress upon ourselves is a product of our own choosing.. especially if we are setting our own goals rather than letting someone else tell us what our goals should be.

Quote from: Patrol69 on Today at 02:22:23 AM

Quote from: Litzki1990 on November 16, 2023, 02:11:09 PM

Quote from: Patrol69 on November 13, 2023, 09:17:04 AM

~snip~

If your friend is interested in investing only because of the profit aspect of the investment, you should give him a complete understanding of the investment. This is very normal for newbies. Newbies are always in a hurry in any work. From the friend you mentioned, it sounds like your friend is more interested in investing only on the profit side of the investment, you should tell him that the amount he has the potential to gain from the investment is the same as the amount he has the potential to lose from the investment hence the profit and loss. After accepting, he should express his interest to invest.

First of all your friend needs to know enough about investing, he will never be able to hold an investment with the same understanding that your friend has about investing. When your friend's investment shows some loss due to a small change in the market, your friend will get very excited and sell all his investment because he cannot bear the small loss. Instead of doing so after investing, he should have adequate understanding of the investment before investing. You must tell your friend the advantages of holding investments for a long time and also directly discuss with him that he needs to be patient and take risks.

Although it is not my responsibility, I am trying hard enough to give my friend an idea about investing but some of his questions bother me. No matter how much I tried to convince him about investing, he just kept asking me one question over and over again that if I can make a profit from my investment then why can't he make a profit from his investment if he invests. Every time I asked him to learn about investing first, he misunderstood me and told me I didn't want him to invest. Still patient and tried to convince him, I shared with him my beginnings in convincing him about investments. I told him like this that you are getting my support in starting but when I started investing I didn't get other's support or any other investor explained me about investing like this but still I am successful in investing only because of my efforts. I told him you will get all investment support from me but you have to try.

When I ask him about long term investment he tells me if my investment is profitable now why should he hold it long. I cannot convince him that investing is not as easy as he thinks it is. It's not like I invested and then I sold my investment but I invested and again when I got money I increased my investment that's how I increased my investment and held it for a long time only then I am now somewhat successful from my investment. Maybe it will take me some time to explain to this friend that I have to hold on to it for a long time because if I get excited about the questions he asks, I might not be able to give him a full understanding of investing. Realizing this, even after he asked the same question several times, I kept calm and tried to explain it to him again.

It cannot necessarily be easy to talk with people about how to invest for the long term, and even starting out with 4-10 years or longer might not be enough. I can say that I invested in bitcoin for 10 years, and this is my level of profits, but the fact that bitcoin performed well over the last 10 years does not mean it is going to perform similarly in the next 10 years, so surely investment strategies have to be adjusted to the person and even a realization that it might take longer than 10 years to really start to feel compounding effects, even if someone is starting right now.

There is ONLY so much hand holding that any of us should be willing to do, especially since each person needs to be responsible for his/her own investment choices, and it might not be a good idea to get into an investment advisor position with such a person, and even investment advisors likely are not able to guarantee results, and they make sure that the client is making the choices or agreeing to the allocation strategies. Investment advisors tend to take a fee which could be a flat fee or it could be a percentage of the earnings or maybe in some cases, it is both.