Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 04:38:33 AM

Quote from: Lidger on November 17, 2023, 04:45:56 PM

My father is a government employee and he belongs to the first grade salary of our country he gets good money salary at the end of the month but he is not satisfied with that much. We have a village house where my father has dug several ponds and there my father has been making good profit from fish farming for several years and we also have several chicken farms and a small cow farm. My father earns every month from his village home business to earn more than the salary he gets from his government job. He gave me financial freedom but he told me to spend money in the right place in the right way. My father is working as well as running several businesses and I am investing his money in bitcoins instead of misusing it.

I have a plan now that I will never waste the money I take from him but I will invest a part of that money in Bitcoin and keep that investment for a long time. After investing in Bitcoin for a long time I have a dream that one day I will hand over a huge amount to my father and tell him that I did not spend your money in the wrong place at all.

Your father is a successful businessman and a successful entrepreneur and you are his son, as his son I think you are headed in the right direction. Your father gave you financial freedom and your father allowed you to spend money in wrong ways. You're keeping your father's word because you invested in Bitcoin instead of spending money the wrong way. I read your post carefully and from reading your post I understand that you want to invest in Bitcoin and give something good to your father at the end of a certain period of time. If you want to give your father a gift from some good investment at the end of the specified period, then there are some things you need to follow.

*First of all you are a bitcoin investor so as a bitcoin investor you need to be patient enough and don't lose faith in the market due to temporary volatility in the market.

*Second, always focus on your target, you must hold your investment till the time you want to invest, hold your investment deeply until your target is met.

*Thirdly, after investing you should forget that you have this amount of investment, all kinds of financial problems you will try to meet in some alternative way. Try not to sell your investment prematurely.

*The fourth thing is to have confidence in your investment and if you have the money to invest later I would say you should definitely keep increasing your investment.

If you can follow these things then I believe you will be able to give your father something good at the end of a certain period of time.

Yeah, but what is the period of time that is expected? are we talking in less than 4 years? Are we talking some greater amount of time?

I don't have anything wrong with what you are saying overall Litzki1990, but the earlier investments run from the time that they are invested, and then the later investment run from the time that they are invested, so even if there might be some lump sums at various points (or frontloading of the investment), the ongoing investments would have shorter amounts of time invested as compared with the earlier investments, so maybe if the time target to "give back to father" would be after two BTC cycles, then there could be investing in the first cycle and just waiting it out in the second cycle, presuming enough is invested, but if Lidger might be aiming to be an active BTC investor, then at some point he might end up reaching his investment target and shift from accumulation into maintenance, and likely we do not have enough details to figure out when those kinds of thresholds might potentially be met by Lidger - presuming that he has thought through some of that as you suggest that he should attempt to do.

Quote from: SmartGold01 on Today at 07:00:08 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:10:12 AM

Quote from: Igurugwu on November 17, 2023, 09:52:45 PM

Quote from: Lidger on November 17, 2023, 04:45:56 PM

No matter what profession we are in or what financial situation we are in, we should always think of alternatives to our financial income. When we have multiple sources of financial income, if one source of financial income stops, we will still get financial support from another source. I look up to my father and I always try to follow my father.

Having one source of income is never advisable. Everyone should have at least 3 to 4 source of income, this way you can be able to face life without much difficulties financially. Like myself I have 2 at the moment and I am hoping to make it up to 3 before the end of next year. Anyone that has one source of income is like sitting on a time bomb.

Of course there are differing customs all over the world, but some professional positions do not really allow people to have other jobs and/or other sources of income, and some of those positions might start out at more than $100k per year out of college and have upper salaries in the millions per year.

Sure those are not typical jobs, but your advice of multiple jobs do not necessarily apply to a variety of high paying professional positions that exist - especially in the west.. and yeah, maybe some of those kinds of positions likely exist in poorer countries too.. so for example, if a company hires corporate executives (or even start-ups), they might not want those people to have any other jobs, and they may or may not start out at high pay, especially in start ups, and some of them might get paid with company stock (equity) rather than receiving very much pay because maybe the company does not have a lot of extra cashflow, but they are looking for folks who are going to be dedicated 24/7 (or maybe not that much?) to carrying out their duties to make sure the company succeeds.

You have just give a typical example of our country Nigeria were some company would have to occupy their workers 24/7 working for them and they get paid peanuts I mean, they are under paid and yet doesn't allow people to look for additional source of income to keep their financial life afloat while they still working with them. I can vividly remember my Aunt working with a company then before she resign of that place was that she had no time for family especially her kids and the husband she was giving the company and 24/7 attention without drawing a proper map of her family to know how to situates and diversified her finance and was just working and spending on the family with mindset that her salary would be increased.

Yeah, I should have had mentioned that a lot of companies attempt to employ their salary employees in such a way that they are not allowed to have other work, and they are on-call to the company, even if they might be underpaid and even if there might be false representations that they are going to receive increases in pay, benefits and/or promotions.. which may or may not end up playing out.

Quote from: SmartGold01 on Today at 07:00:08 AM

Along the line her husband isn't that comfortable with the whole working process and asked her to quite because she was only getting used by the company while they boost their income/GDP, and enslaved their worker to keep working for them, their salary were less than 100$ then, per dollars was around NGN 495, even some government workers then were being underpaid especially those we calls civil servants and most of them do not own a personal property due to the minimal amount they are being paid for the month and per year just as you said I can basically say that our country is another good place to point out and the only way to survive is being self employed Yes! Because one can do business and get 10x of the amount being offered by some offices or by some companies, anyone who is working with the government are indirectly or directly enslaving themselves.

Yeah.. some people do not feel that they have all of the skills to employ themselves and to promote their business, so there is a kind of security with getting a job with someone else - except as you suggested that working for someone else (a company) might end up being a kind of trap in which the employees are never really able to get ahead.

Quote from: SmartGold01 on Today at 07:00:08 AM

Lets do small mathematics:-
If a company or a civil servants are being paid less than $100 (90$ at the rate of 1125 Naira) in my country, finds out how many years it would take them to build a house of at least the minimal 2 bedroom flat.
... Let say their salary is $90 x 1125 = NGN 101,250, then ($90 x 12 = $1,080)
Removing savings let say 30,000 - 101,250 = 71,250 remaining
Then we also remove house rent 30,000 - 71,250 = 41,250 remaining ( Our house rents are being paid yearly)
Removing feeding 20,000- 41,250 remaining 21,250
Then we can say the remaining 21250 is for billings and reserved funds..

So let do the remaining balancing.. main salary 101,250., everything as substracted will be multiple by 12 months (1 year) to know how long it would take any one being paid 101,250 (90$) to own a house.

Savings 30,000 x 12 = 360,000 per year
House rent 30,000 x 12 = 360,000
Feeding (foods stock) 20,000 x 12 = 240,000
Billings 10,000 x 12 = 120,000
Reserved fund 10,250 x 12 = 123,000

Then at least to finish and furniture a two bedroom flat in my country depending on the location is about 15, million for PortHarcourt Rivers State, for Lagos 30 million, for Abuja is 70 million above these depends on the land locations in those states.

We now used the total savings to be divided by each state to know how many years one needs to do a job of 90$ to get a house in my country.
15,000,000 / 360,000 = ~ 42 years, In Portharcourt River's state, 83 years for Lagos while Abuja is 194 years. Lols this till the next generation they won't be able to complete such building in that last place. This is to show how some people are homeless and can't afford any single property of their own. That's why we need a personal business and not to get enslaved by any companies or under paid offices.

Of course, incomes might be able to be combined in a family situation.. but yeah no matter how you slice it, the working for someone else situation can be quite dire in some places if there might not be enough higher paying jobs in order to bid up salaries, and if people do not feel that they have other opportunities, then they take those kinds of jobs with the belief that they might not have any other options - except like you say, if they are an entrepreneur then it could be possible that they could make a better life for themselves, but there is a lot of self-training and self-resourcefulness that is required from anyone doing their own business..

and frequently when they are first building their businesses, they might not get paid enough to live, but then if they keep building their business, it could well end up getting to the point where they can sustain themselves and then make equal to what they would make with someone else and then later start to make more than what they could have had made working for someone else. they surely do not start out by making more.. it takes time to build a business, and a decent number of individual businesses end up not being successful.. which is another reason that people end up going with the sure thing that is not very good rather than the uncertain thing that might be better, but might not end up being better.

Quote from: fzkto on Today at 11:38:51 AM

Quote from: Roseline492 on November 17, 2023, 08:43:13 PM

[edited out]

If bitcoin has only gotten more expensive over time, it's probably going to be problematic to buy a whole bitcoin in the future. The only thing that can be done is to follow cycles and sell when the top is up, then buy at the bottom in parts. But even in that case you would need to spend a lot of time.

This thread is not about trading and/or selling as a technique to accumulate more bitcoin.

Sure selling and/or trading might have some kind of role for some people in some circumstances, but we are not talking about those kinds of techniques here.. especially if we might be referring to BTC accumulation techniques that involve various forms of buying... which is likely superior for most people anyhow.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on Today at 12:16:04 PM

You don't expect me to have a bitcoin goal and after let me say 10yrs, I have reached my bitcoin target with so much endurance and patients, and I will then sell part of my bitcoin to buy a car that will depreciate in value as time goes on.

Since I cannot recall whenever you got into bitcoin, I will use your form registration date, so if you are barely into bitcoin, then you may well have more than 9 years to go during your bitcoin accumulation journey, yet I would suggest that if you are accumulating bitcoin for 10 years, you would not just transition into selling BTC (and buying cars or whatever, or even reinvesting into other kinds of investments), you are likely going to go through various transition times in which you accumulate bitcoin and you reach your target, but you still might not go straight to selling, but you might go into a stage in which you are either buying less or you are only buying on dips of certain levels.

But even before you go into consumption goods you would likely invest into other assets before you go into consumption, and then even your earlier stages of increasing your consumption based on your presumptive higher wealth (based on your having had built up your bitcoin), you might use your new cash to either invest in other things and/or to consume, rather than selling your bitcoin.. even though surely there also could be ways that you might have reached your BTC accumulation target and you may have also exceeded your BTC accumulation target, so you might end up having extra BTC that you are then able to sell in certain circumstances that the BTC price is going up.

In the end, you can do whatever you want (even if it might be dumb things), but there are ways to transition between your various stages without overly consuming your BTC but still taking some advantages of that BTC wealth.. and the decision might not always be to sell BTC, even though if you are in profits and the BTC price is moving up, there could well be ways that you can structure some selling on the way up that may or may not end up in some re-accumulation of BTC if the BTC price later falls.. but whatever your strategies, they would be more clear when you get closer to approaching points in which you have more BTC as compared with what you might have today if we can presume that you ONLY have less than a year of BTC accumulation under your belt.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on Today at 12:16:04 PM

Quote from: fzkto on Today at 11:38:51 AM

The only thing that can be done is to follow cycles and sell when the top is up, then buy at the bottom in parts. But even in that case you would need to spend a lot of time.

.......
Another thing you should look into is that it is not easy to know the bottom line of bitcoin price and that is why you might end up missing out after you must have sold all your bitcoin that you bought. Don't think like traders, think like an investor on a long term bitcoin journey.

Surely this part is true too. So if you have spent time accumulating BTC, then you may well come to realize that you have more and more options, but one of those options should be to make sure that you hold onto a decent amount of your BTC, even if you might later start to engage in some selling techniques.

I had frequently considered that some people cannot resist trading, yet if they cannot stop themselves from trading then perhaps they could figure out some ways to put limits on how much of their BTC holdings that they are trading with, and even in one of the more aggressive scenarios, there could be cases in which any new cash that comes in, then at most then ONLY half of it can be used for trading, and the other half has to go into buying BTC and keeping that BTC investment stash completely separate and off limits, and sure if you are building your BTC stash by trading, then maybe every once in a while take some of that extra value and put it into the "off-limits" BTC stash that you are building, building and building.. but building through buying and adding to it rather than fucking around with trading.

I would imagine that the BTC investing stash will grow more than the trading stash, and it could even be the case that the trading stash is frequently running out of money, but that does not mean that you can put more into the trading stash unless you put an equal amount into the BTC investing stash... That would be one of the ways to potentially temper BTC trading desires in order that you are still able to do it, but ONLY with around half of your budget and also folding in some of the trading profits (when they might come) into the BTC investment stash. .and trying NOT to get too greedy about the whole situation...since investing is likely superior to trading for an overwhelming majority of people, even though some people just cannot resist having some kind of a trading (and/or gambling) practice in the mix of their activities.

Quote from: Patrol69 on Today at 01:55:19 PM

Quote from: fzkto on Today at 11:38:51 AM

If bitcoin has only gotten more expensive over time, it's probably going to be problematic to buy a whole bitcoin in the future. The only thing that can be done is to follow cycles and sell when the top is up, then buy at the bottom in parts. But even in that case you would need to spend a lot of time.

.....
By investing we mean holding for a long period of time buying a reliable coin.
.....

We are ONLY talking about BTC in this thread. Fuck shitcoins.

Quote from: Patrol69 on Today at 01:55:19 PM

There is a substantial difference between trading and investing.

Trading is usually conducted by people like a business as in business a commodity is bought at a low price and sold at a high price, similarly in the case of trading any coin that is bought at a low price is sold at a high price. If investors are asked questions about investing, they will never say that they bought a particular coin and sold those coins at a higher price after a few days. By investing in Bitcoin we mean holding it for the long term as we mean Bitcoin. If the investment cannot be sustained for a long time then I think the investment is incomplete.

You may have guessed that at the current rate of Bitcoin price it is impossible to buy all Bitcoins at one time. Nothing is impossible, everything is possible for humans. There are many people who buy many bitcoins and hold them for a long time. Our investment holdings are negligible compared to the way large investors hold their investments for long periods of time. Those with enough money to invest can purchase multiple bitcoins if they wish. If those who don't have enough money invest regularly, then one day they will own one BTC, only investors need to be consistent.

I agree with your other points.

Quote from: Justbillywitt on Today at 02:24:43 PM

Quote

I know that we all have a high expectation on Bitcoin investment but that doesn't mean that we should put or set a budget to achieve using the profits realize from our investment we did on Bitcoin, for me is not a wise plan, the best way is just to manage your budget using other means and leave your investment to keep running because if you put all your hope to build a house from the returns you get from your Bitcoin investment it might take longer than you expected and depending on how much you investment.

Why can't we put a budget on bitcoin profit? Op didn't say he has a time limit placed when he said he intend using the profit from his bitcoin investment to build a house. You and I know how highly volatile bitcoin halving is fast approaching. You don't know the size of his investment. I don't agree with you when you said we shouldn't place a budget from our bitcoin profits. So if I bought bitcoin when it was 22k and I have my sight placed at the peak of the bullrun season that is coming to take some profit, let's say middle of 2025 and buy myself a range rover. I'm I wrong to do so going by what you said. We all believe in the potential of bitcoin, and for me time is not a problem. I think it's not not wrong to have a projection of what to do with the bitcoin profits when you are holding a great amount of bitcoin at your disposal.

This is not completely wrong,and sure there can be ways to take profits at various points in time, but if you are still building your BTC holdings, then you might end up overly consuming if you have not built up a sufficiently amount of extra BTC in order to justify taking out enough to buy your 2026 or whatever model Range Rover.

For example, if a 2026 Range Rover costs right around $110k or maybe even more than that in mid-to-late 2025, and if you accumulated 0.5 BTC at $22k, then you had invested $11k into BTC and then when the price reaches $220k, then you are able to cash out your 0.5 BTC for your 2026 Range Rover. What else do you have left? Did you invest more into BTC or did you blow your whole BTC wadd into a 2026 Range Rover?

Now, on the other hand, if you had been buying $100 worth of BTC per week for the past 3.5 years (since May 1, 2020), and you invested $18,600 and you had accumulated 0.8301 BTC, then you may well be in a similar position as the person who had bought his BTC at $22k, and so if you continue to buy BTC, and then the BTC price goes to $220k, by mid 2025, then you still may well be spending half of your BTC stash for a 2026 Range Rover.

You are free to make your choices about what to do, but you may well be engaging in over consumption depending on the size of your stash that you are spending for consumption, versus how much you might be able to put into BTC on a regular basis and/or your other strategies that might amount to gambling rather than investing.. and surely it seems that if you are still building your investment portfolio then you need to be careful on the consumption of extravagant, depreciating, expensive to maintain and showy consumption items, even though there could be some ways that you might be able to improve social status through the possession/ownership of such items.

Quote from: Lidger on Today at 02:43:20 PM

Quote from: armanda90 on Today at 10:40:42 AM

Quote from: Lidger on November 17, 2023, 04:45:56 PM

My father is a government employee and he belongs to the first grade salary of our country he gets good money salary at the end of the month but he is not satisfied with that much. We have a village house where my father has dug several ponds and there my father has been making good profit from fish farming for several years and we also have several chicken farms and a small cow farm. My father earns every month from his village home business to earn more than the salary he gets from his government job. He gave me financial freedom but he told me to spend money in the right place in the right way. My father is working as well as running several businesses and I am investing his money in bitcoins instead of misusing it.

I have a plan now that I will never waste the money I take from him but I will invest a part of that money in Bitcoin and keep that investment for a long time. After investing in Bitcoin for a long time I have a dream that one day I will hand over a huge amount to my father and tell him that I did not spend your money in the wrong place at all.

Regarding with your father have been on dependent financial condition its enough reason for spending all his salary payment from government in bitcoin, but you need to educate your father first what is bitcoin and how to get advantage or profitable trough bitcoin investment. You have good ideas when spending all money receiving from your father in bitcoin because still have another passive income make it easily how to spent as much money possibility for investing in bitcoin. You should be diamond hand with bitcoin holding exactly you not face difficult with financial condition and not urgent needed have to sell bitcoin.

I believe with several months later bitcoin halving have potential your investment increasing drastically, no doubt with bitcoin potential in the future and your decision all out in bitcoin investment is most perfect thing.

I am confident in this aspect that I can hold my investment for a long time because we have multiple sources of income and my father is a government employee so I may not have to sell my investment in case of financial need. Many people may not have the financial freedom I have and the opportunity to hold investments for a long time. There are many people who earn money by working hard and after earning money they invest a part of that money, compared to them it is very easy for me to invest and keep that investment for a long time.

I respect those investors who work hard and invest in Bitcoin hoping for good things and they try to hold on to that investment for a long time even if they suffer a lot. Those who don't sell their investment despite having many shortages are the real investors.
Since I will never need to sell the investment, I will try to hold my investment for as long as possible. If I am successful in the investment, I will discuss my investment with my family.

What is a "long time" for you? more than 4 years? Are you going to keep buying BTC for the next 4 years or just sit on it? Are you interactive with your investment in terms of continuing to buy? And then another thing would be questions regarding making sure that your coins are secure. It will not do you a whole hell of a lot of good if you spend time building up your BTC investment portfolio, but you are not adequately securing your coins.. So hopefully you are thinking about and acting upon better security practices rather than holding BTC with a third party (such as an exchange) if that might have been how you initially got involved in buying your bitcoin in those kinds of ways.