Quote from: modrobert on Today at 07:07:02 PM

I like seeing Bitcoin on the rise, but have this eerie feeling it will not mean much by the time it really takes off (hopefully wrong about that).

I am not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that there is some kind of a correction, then why would any kind of correction matter, if the price ends up "taking off" and then presumptively going past our current price, going past $50k, going past previous ATH and at minimum ending up supra $80k.. .. You would be presuming that at least the minimum has decently good chances in the next 1 to 2 years and so that would be a doubling of whatever you have into bitcoin in 1-2 years. Sure, it is possible that even the "minimum" does not end up playing out, but you don't really seem to be suggesting that kind of a scenario, are you?

Now on the upside, there are a lot of really decent scenarios ranging from supra $100k to $2.5 million and above, but surely even many of the really decent upside scenarios seem to be erroring quite low in the range, which seems to be $500k or lower, but even that would not be bad, and we cannot take any of those various upside scenarios for granted, and we cannot even take for granted that we are going to get up from here rather than sideways or down, but hardly any of us who have been studying bitcoin for very long would consider sideways or down from here scenarios to have better than 50/50 chances, and maybe even we might be assigning less than 35% odds to those kinds of downity and/or sideways scenarios...

so what is the "hopefully [I'm] wrong about that" part of your statement?

Quote from: modrobert on Today at 07:07:02 PM

Quote from: JimboToronto on Today at 06:04:21 PM

No need to splurge and act like a high-roller when that really means just being another consumerist sucker.

Yes, and it's even worse when not enjoying spending, turning into a jaded consumerist. Remind me why we do this again?

I would think that many of us do it in order to have more options. So, if we are looking at having bitcoin versus not having bitcoin, having bitcoin seems to give us more options, even if we may or may not end up getting rich off of the matter.

Probably, bitcoin also gives hope because there are not too many investments in which anyone can have hope, and surely people buy real estate and houses for themselves at least, because they can say at least they have a place to live, but surely houses are not very liquid and we still have to eat and engage in various other activities besides just having a house.. even though surely it is nice to have a house, but even if we completely own the house, some people run out of abilities to pay for the taxes (and/or other costs) of completely owning a house, so there should continue to be some value in terms of having liquid value, even surely there are ongoing attempts to attack bitcoin's liquidity, but I doubt many of us HODLers consider that bitcoin liquidity is going to be falling merely because there are various avenues in which rich people and governments are likely considering that they are going to have some success in terms of channeling normies into official financial products...

yet bitcoin does allow us various kinds of powers to transact peer to peer. .and likely there are going to continue to be ways to transact in those kinds of direct ways, even if there are going to likely be ongoing challenges too... where are we keeping our keys and have various avenues to interact been shut down.. an we run an app on our phone? or do we have to use the computer or do we have to resort to some other means of transacting?

Quote from: SamReomo on Today at 07:16:53 PM

Quote from: UnDerDoG81 on Today at 07:33:05 AM

[edited out]

Why don't you move to a better place where things are much cheaper and the rent doesn't cost you 700 euros per month? In many countries people live for less then $200 per month and that life isn't just simple living but fully enjoyable living for that amount. I know in many places the rent for a whole house if around $100 to $150 per month where you can get 2 bed rooms and 2 bathrooms plus a 1000 sq ft area. If you purpose is to save money then my suggestion would help you better but if your purpose is to save your money and not utilize your Bitcoin earned wealth then you might do whatever suits you better.

I doubt that UnDerDoG81's purpose is to merely save money. He is describing various expenses that he has and plus options that he has to upgrade if he wants to, yet he still chooses to live with a slightly smaller budget and to choose a bit less luxury. .and sure there is a balance with a combination of savings and choice of consumption.

I don't have any problem with the idea of relocating for less expenses and maybe even being able to upgrade your lifestyle by moving to an area that has lower costs of living, but at the same time, there tend to be quite a few costs regarding getting used to living in new areas - including that we would not be able to bring our friends with us too.

Quote from: SamReomo on Today at 07:16:53 PM

We have got this life for one time only and we must have to enjoy it fully. We won't return to planet Earth after departure so it's not really needed to live below average life when you have the money that you can spend to acquire things that make your life more enjoyable. I won't say that it's fair to waste money but utilizing money is needed sometimes in order to have pure happiness in our lives.

You are not really saying anything different from UnDerDoG81, except you seem to be presuming that the mere running of a budget and living within limits is a kind of great sacrifice - and sure living within a budget does bring sacrifice, but it does not necessarily mean that we perceive ourselves to be suffering or to unable to enjoy any luxuries. It just remains a matter of choice how many luxuries to partake and then the extent to which our luxuries might end up costing us more because we failed/refused to sufficiently and adequately defer gratification.

Let's say for example, I have gotten to 10 bitcoin, and I need a new car because it helps me to work and to enjoy life. So if I don't have the cash to buy the new car and I need to dip into various resources and to cut my spending and maybe I only have to dip into less than 0.5 bitcoin to buy a practical car, I might be able to do much better for my longer term future, and maybe not even end up depleting my bitcoin stash by very much because I am able to continue accumulating BTC as compared to someone who might choose a more luxurious and easy path to end up spending 2-3 bitcoins to buy a more luxurious car and maybe not engaging in the various efforts to cut spending in other areas.

So maybe the person with the more frugal spending might be able to continue to accumulate bitcoin to get up to 12 BTC or so within the next 8-10 years, and the person who is continuing to make choices to spend more and to live it up might still be at 7-8 BTC (or maybe even fewer BTC) 8-10 years from now, and so even in accordance with my entry-level fuck you status chart, the person with 12 BTC may even get up to western entry level fuck you status in 2031 or so, and the person with only 7-8 BTC might not get there until 2033 or 2044.. and sure maybe I am presuming too many things, but still trying to give an example of how these kinds of matters can make pretty decently large differences with the passage of time.

Quote from: vroom on Today at 07:34:38 PM

is the wall gone?

Quote from: ChartBuddy on December 09, 2023, 12:03:25 PM

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

Quote from: ChartBuddy on Today at 04:03:23 PM

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

Exactly!!! It is gone. It got pulled.

Quote from: DirtyKeyboard on Today at 09:06:06 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:31:49 PM

Quote from: DirtyKeyboard on Today at 07:10:40 AM

-gif-

That 24 hour review does end un highlighting the poofed-ness of that wall, and such poofed-ness might cause some of us to wonder whether it is going to come back or not. That is one of the interesting things about actually noticing walls, and wondering if they serve some kind of a purpose, and sometimes they will also move quite a bit, and it can be a kind of demonstration that some entity either has coins to sell (on the ask side) or money to buy BTC (on the buy side), and surely one of our favorites do play out if the walls are eaten rather than moved around and there have actually been some times in which walls were eaten really quickly, which will sometimes cause some of us to speculate that maybe the bluff (or the play) did not end up working out as planned. . but that it is one of the risks that any whale takes when s/he might be trying to keep the price within a range, and the play does not end up working out.. getting back to the idea of fake walls versus real walls, and it is difficult for anyone (outside of the person who put it up) to really know if the wall is real or fake.. we can ONLY infer.

I couldn't tell if the wall was out of frame or moved/pulled. It does seem to wash down towards the spread. 3 hour Wall recap
The wall could have also been sort of random. If you've worked at a restaurant you might have noticed times that there were no customers for hours, and then out of no where everyone seems to just start piling in. That was a pretty steep wall, but it was on a very round number.

Yeah, but that is how these kinds of walls work. They get placed, and sure, the person who placed it could have moved it and put it at another location, but usually if they are just trying to bluff the market, they might put the wall closer to the actual price, especially if the actual price is getting further away rather than putting the wall further away. Another thing that can happen is that the wall will get put back in place when the BTC price starts to get closer to that $48k-ish price. So walls that disappear are not necessarily permanently gone, and maybe one of the better case scenarios would be if the wall got put back in place at $48k when the BTC price was about to return to and to break through $45k, and so the wall is put in place as a kind of deterrent, yet maybe the BTC price rushes up so fast that the wall gets eaten up faster than it can get pulled... and even better if the BTC price keeps going past the price of the wall and does not return, which frequently cause problems for people (or institutions) that are placing those kinds of walls as mechanisms to deter rather than really wanting to sell at that price.

Quote from: DirtyKeyboard on Today at 09:06:06 PM

Quote from: vroom on Today at 07:34:38 PM

is the wall gone?

Feels like it's out there somewhere, just biding its time.

Yes. The wall might get reactivated at some point, and it could get put at the same price, it could get put at a lower price or it could get put at a higher price.. We will see if and/or when it comes back, and surely your little 24 hour revision does make it easier to catch as long as it might get placed over several hours, rather than getting placed and pulled right away.. which those kinds of wall-manipulation behaviors happen from time to time too.