Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 11:45:46 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 14, 2023, 06:44:25 PM

Exactly.. a person (newbie into bitcoin/investing) can start out by dedicating 5% to 10% of his income into the investment, and after a few years increase that to higher amounts.. but surely if it remains unfeasible to increase the investment amount to more than 5% to 10%, then such person should just do what he can, and even 5% to 10% will likely add up, even though 5% is likely only equivalent to having had invested a whole year's salary after 20 years of employing such strategy, but 10% has chances of having invested a whole year's salary after 10 years.. and sometimes these higher levels of aggressiveness (when possible) can make really stupendous kinds of differences in therms of the progress made and how the quantities might add up to significant, meaningful and potentially life-changing amounts.

That's actually good figures to invest but knowing newbies they don't easily go with long term investment that's why they also need to experience first how to trade well in the market and after that for sure they would realize that Hodl is so good for anyone and for that they can start this 5% or `10% part of their salary for their investment.

I don't see how trading is going to help anyone to potentially build up their BTC holdings in a faster way, and probably one of the better ways to increase their BTC holdings and their abilities to reach 1 year's salary invested in a shorter period of time is to increase income and/or cut expenses.

Sure, if someone has no realistic ways to increase his/her income and/or job possibilities, then maybe in those kinds of circumstances, there could be some value in learning trading.. but I still have my doubts, especially when it comes to bitcoin. Bitcoin is amongst the best of asymmetric Upward opportunities that any of us have (if not the best), so why would we want to be fucking around with it and trying to trade it? That hardly makes any sense, and surely if trading bitcoin, then there is some needs to learn about bitcoin, but if trading shitcoins, then there would be needs to learn about that crap, including likely a lot of distracting and not even good kinds of information... especially if you are attempting to learn about pumping and dumping and market sentiment and a lot of that dumb stuff.. Seems like a big waste of time as compared to if you are able to develop some real world skills in order to figure out how to improve your income and/or to cut your expenses, and maybe even being able to figure out some interesting kinds of work.. although sometimes, if people are going to college, or even some trade schools, some of those programs can end up being quite expensive and to take away from abilities to buy bitcoin, which is a trade off and it is not always clear how to prioritize when resources may well be limited including time, energies and monetary value.

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 11:45:46 AM

After that once they know how good to have bitcoin then they can increase their balances if they want to increase their investment capital for bitcoin.

Well, there are a variety of things that can be learned about bitcoin, yet many of the investing skills may well not relate so much to learning about bitcoin specifically, but instead learning about how to manage various investment related matters, and learning about bitcoin is ONLY one of the nine areas that I point out in another of my posts.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 15, 2021, 02:10:03 AM

These principle individual factors that influence your decision whether to invest into bitcoin and how to invest into bitcoin have financial, skills and psychological components that include:
1)   your cashflow,
2)   how much bitcoin you have already accumulated,
3)   your other investments (including cash reserves),
4)   your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments,
5)   your timeline,
6)   your risk tolerance,
7)   your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets, which includes figuring out the extent that you are in BTC accumulation, maintenance or liquidation stage),
8 )   your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time,
9)   your considering your time, your abilities and whether to trade, reallocate from time to time, to use of leverage and/or to use financial instruments... (and for sure the use of financial instruments, leverage and margin trading involve higher level skills and are not even necessary to still become richie in bitcoin's already existing asymmetric bet.)

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 11:45:46 AM

I might not suggest to use all of their salary but rather slowly increasing the amount they use maybe better so that they can still have money to use for spending on other things they need and they don't need to became more greedy with it since there's perfect time for everything that's why use the amount they can afford to lose since everything will be rewarding in the end once bitcoin pump and we properly execute all necessary things needed especially for strengthen up their emotions on the challenges comes in the market.

It can be very difficult for people to discipline themselves to be able to get up to an amount of saving/investing 10% or more of their income, and surely some people might not be in a position in which they are able to do it, yet other people might be able to find a variety of ways to increase their income and then if they are largely keeping their expenses down, then they might be able to increase the percentage that they earn in terms of being able to save/invest, and each person has to figure out what might work for them based on their own circumstances, and maybe they have some things that they can do (or change) that are easy, and they have some things that they can do (or change) that take a lot more involvement and time to carry out.. One of the common areas is that people get themselves into various kinds of debt situations and they might end up paying high fees for the various debts that they have, and so it may not make a lot of sense to be saving and/or investing when they would likely put themselves into a better situation by paying down their debt, and sometimes, they can do more than one thing at the same time, but it still can take time to really get finances in order and also to be in a position to be able to invest/save more aggressively that goes up to 10% or even larger amounts of income.

Quote from: Frankolala on Today at 04:31:25 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:02:42 AM

then he never had a sufficiently-sized emergency fund, and he ended up getting lucky that he did not end up having to experience an emergency.. and the person investing 10% was more prepared for such emergency, even though in the case of this hypothetical, no emergency ended up happening... that is another thing with a sufficiently buttressed emergency fund, it might be less than 5% odds that the emergency fund will ever be needed, and so there are choices about how much to buttress the emergency fund, and realizing the fact that there could be some circumstances in which NOT having a sufficient emergency fund could totally wipe a person out... even though the odds still might be less than 5% that such emergency fund will ever come into need.

Yea I agree with you that most times the emergency funds might not be used because no emergency occurred and that is why you must prepare for the emergency funds, so that if a scenario played out for three consecutive months that only 5% of emergency funds or lesser was used, then the remaining funds can be used to buy bitcoin for front loading, while in the other months, you can continue keeping the emergency funds for it to pile up again, if emergency don't occur, but some months emergency will come into the picture. Keeping an emergency funds is of more advantage to the investor, because sometimes, the emergency funds can be put back into your bitcoin portfolio, when it has accumulated to an extent.

You are describing emergency funds in a fairly strange kind of a way. Let's say for example, you have an income that varies between about $1,200 and $3,200 per month, and most of the time, you are earning around $2,400 per month. Let's say that your expenses are between $1,600 and $2,000, so there are a variety of ways that you can approach this matter, and personally, I think that if you have such variation in your account, then it probably would be best to take the high end of your expenses and to have around $12,000 in an emergency fund, which is the high end of your expenses $2k * 6 months, and so during the time that you are building up your emergency fund, you can also be investing into bitcoin, but if you know that you are working to get to having $12k in your emergency fund, then you are not really going to be in a stable place until your emergency fund reaches that amount. So maybe you want to invest $100 per week into bitcoin, yet since you are still building your emergency fund in order to get to the 6 months of reserves, then maybe you would ONLY invest $50 per month into bitcoin until you get to your emergency fund target.

Once you reach your emergency fund target amount, then you will have more freedoms, and maybe you could even invest $100 to $200 per week into bitcoin, but if your emergency fund is getting depleted, then you might have to cut back in the amount that you invest into bitcoin while you build it back up. Also if there are months in which you end up earning ONLY $1,200 and if your expenses are still $2k for that month, then your emergency fund ended up getting depleted by $800 for that month and you would have to build it back up, and sure it would be up to you about whether you would invest $50 per week, $100 per week or some other amount into bitcoin, but also realizing that the more that you live with a depleted emergency fund, then the more risks you are taking.

Sure it is discretionary regarding how secure and how robust you want your emergency fund to be, and many people might never have any emergency fund, but that could end up being part of the reason that they lose all of their investment s whenever they have an emergency because they are largely using their investments as an emergency fund, which might work out o.k. once you are rich, but if you are in the early stages of building your wealth, you want to make sure that you have more protections in place so that you never have to dip into your BTC at any time that is other than your complete choosing to do so.

Of course, any of us who might have inconsistent income and inconsistent expenses, we may well have to have more cushion in our emergency fund, and we might draw upon parts of our emergency fund from time to time, but we also might have our own ideas about various limits in which we do not want our emergency fund to cross below, so there could be upper and lower limits that guide how aggressive that we might be in our ongoing BTC purchases, whether weekly or some other time period that we carry out such BTC purchases.

Quote from: Frankolala on Today at 04:31:25 PM

Quote from: SmartGold01 on Today at 07:59:07 AM

[edited out]

There are so many scenarios that will play out that make 1-4yrs time unethical to invest in bitcoin.

It is not unethical merely because someone might be trying to play the shorter time periods, but they might be gambling rather than long term investing, and it may or may not end up working out for them, especially if they are using funds that they need in such short time period, and they have not planned for longer time period, then they might feel that they need to cash out during the period in which they had prepared.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 11:45:46 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 14, 2023, 06:44:25 PM

Snip

That's actually good figures to invest but knowing newbies they don't easily go with long term investment that's why they also need to experience first how to trade well in the market and after that for sure they would realize that Hodl is so good for anyone and for that they can start this 5% or `10% part of their salary for their investment. After that once they know how good to have bitcoin then they can increase their balances if they want to increase their investment capital for bitcoin. I might not suggest to use all of their salary but rather slowly increasing the amount they use maybe better so that they can still have money to use for spending on other things they need and they don't need to became more greedy with it since there's perfect time for everything that's why use the amount they can afford to lose since everything will be rewarding in the end once bitcoin pump and we properly execute all necessary things needed especially for strengthen up their emotions on the challenges comes in the market.

Exactly... Beginners should learn about trading before making long term investments.

That is a dumb idea. You do not need to learn how to trade before investing. In fact, trading requires way more skills than investing, and dollar cost averaging investing takes almost no skills in order to get started with $10 per week or whatever might be the starting amount. The main thing that you have to assess is that you have an extra $10 per week that you are able to put in, and that you believe that the $10 might be worth more in 4-10 years or longer by being in bitcoin rather than not being in bitcoin, and sure there are some personal financing matters, but they are no where even close to the kinds of skills to figure out how to trade, and really who is going to be such a dumb fuck to be trading bitcoin when it is amongst the best, if not the best, investment available, and you are going to be fucking around with trying to trade it rather than accumulate it? Makes little to no sense to say that learning dumb guessing games like trading to be any kind of advantage or necessity for someone to get into bitcoin, especially when talking about longer term, such as 4-10 years or longer.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

They need also to understand the market and get better trading before investing a lot of money in beginning.

Why? investing can start with $10 per week. Yeah, you can figure out your budget and if you figure that you can invest more than $10 per week then you can do that. If you can figure out that you can increase your income and/or decrease your expenses, then you can do that. If you find out that you have some money in a location, and then you can move it over into bitcoin, and you might not need to move all of it at once... Let's say that you find that you have $1,200 that is in another fund that you want to put into bitcoin, and so you might decide to divide that amount into 3 parts that you could plug into 1) DCA, 2) lump sum and 3) buying on dips... and yeah, you do not even need to divide the $1,200, but you should at least consider the three possible categories, and figure out which one(s) you consider to be best for your $1,200 to end up getting used to buy BTC.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

It is a good idea for them to start investing a small part of the salary like 5% or 10% to slowly slowly build their investment portfolio.

Sure. There is nothing wrong with that.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

Once beginner understand Bitcoin and feeling more confident in their trading skills. They should start investing.

Again, you seem to have things backwards. More likely if a person has been investing into bitcoin for 3-6 years, then maybe he might have built up a large enough investment into bitcoin, so that if he wants to trade (gamble) with a portion of his BTC, then he can. Hopefully trading/gambling with no greater than 10% of the size of his BTC holdings would go into either trading and/or gambling into BTC or shitcoins, if that might be considered a form of trading, but even way less than 10% is probably better since it is likely to be a losing game, or not at all is probably even the best. Hopefully keeping the trading/gambling/shitcoins down to less than 10% of the BTC size will teach a person not to be trying to dabble into his/her BTC stash, since if he ends up losing part or all of his 10%, then hopefully there are limits to not to be able to keep drawing into the bitcoin stash in order to continue to fund trading/losing value.

At the same time, everyone has discretion to do as he pleases in order to figure out how to build his BTC investment portfolio.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

But it is important to not use all of their salary for investments. It is good to balance and use some money for investments and some for other important things for life.

Didn't you already suggest starting with 5% to 10% of the income for investment/savings? So sure, if finances are in order more and more can be used for investing, and if more is used for investing/saving, then there could be better chances to make progress in terms of building up of enough of a bitcoin and/or investment portfolio in order to create more and more options in life and including being able to improve (increase) a persons standard of living because he has more wealth.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

Become too greediness when investing can be dangerous for them.

When I hear trading. I hear greedy... so yeah greedy can become dangerous.. because a person should strive to be aggressive with his/her investment but not to become overly aggressive.. so if that is what you mean by the dangers of greediness, then I would agree with that perspective.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

By using only money they can be afford to lose.... beginners can reduced the risks and can avoid making quick decisions. It is important also to be emotionally strong and able to handle challenges in the market for long term success.

Yes, emotional strength can be buttressed by position size, so managing finances in a way that is solid and having a solid emergency fund will likely help a person to both create an environment for emotional strength but also to reinforce emotional strength..

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

And this experience can be gained buy investing some less money in beginning.
To sum up, starting with small investments gradually investing more money and keep a balanced approach can help beginners in the market.

That makes sense.

Quote from: SmartGold01 on Today at 05:45:35 PM

Of course when they sold at cheap price they end up regretting their investment as I can say that bitcoin isn't that predictable based on price movement and differences and of a true 10 year can be considered a sufficient time period for one to hold his bitcoin except for someone that is greed to make some profits while they proceed their holding processes, that result in decreasing the total amount of Bitcoin in their custody.

10 years may or may not be enough. Surely if a person had been investing 5% per year, then after 10 years, he has only invested about 50% of his annual income into bitcoin, so they might not really be in a very strong place with their BTC investment, even after 10 years investing. Of course, 10% would result in a whole year invested and 20% would result in about 2 years of income invested.

So, how well the BTC price performs during the 10 years of investing could also make a difference regarding where the person is at versus where he had expected to be after 10 years, but even a fairly aggressive, consistent and persistent approach might not be enough, such as if his goal was to get to fuck you status, then with traditional investing, someone might take 30-40 years to get to fuck you status, and they might not even get there, so how much of an advantage (if any?) the incorporation of bitcoin into the investment portfolio might still not exactly be clear, because frequently fuck you status would be to get somewhere between 20-30 years of income saved up (invested), and even if the investor is not at or near entry-level fuck you status, they still could be in a position of much greater advantages from having had invested into bitcoin as compared to if they had not invested in bitcoin, yet none of those kinds of performance measures are guaranteed, either.

Quote from: Aanuoluwatofunmi on Today at 05:47:14 PM

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:06:20 PM

[edited out]

There are many mistakes that the newbies did alot that have been the sole reasons why they have been in the kind of situations they've found themsel because they never understand the needful expectations required from them to begin with the proper way of learning how to do something.

When you're newly introduced onto a network or system, then you just don't jump anyhow, instead you take your time to acquire the required knowledge and do the needful to help you get the maximum expectations turns a reality or your acheivements.

Don't let the perfect to be the enemy of the good, especially since any newbie can get started right away with $10 per week or some other modest amount and learn as he goes... Investing a small amount on a regular basis can motivate faster learning, and surely there could be some opportunties to get in now and you never know what might happen later down the road. So far in bitcoin there have been periods in which the price never ends up returning, so there had been a lot of advantages towards the BTC newbie investors who acted quickly rather diddly-daddling around, failing to act and then ending up psyching themselves out because they both watched the price, and also told themselves that they do not really understand bitcoin. I still don't really understand bitcoin very well. even after 10 years of buying it and watching it on a quite regular basis.