Quote from: FinePoine0 on Today at 07:32:50 AM

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 07:04:46 AM

Quote from: JoyMarsha on December 18, 2023, 10:20:47 PM

Quote from: khiholangkang on December 17, 2023, 06:37:15 PM

and HOLD BTC is the action you should choose

As believers of bitcoin, the most important lesson we were all given was how to become long-term holders of bitcoin in order to become profitable investors. If we can accomplish that, our bitcoin holdings should have generated returns for us in the future, depending on the duration of our bitcoin hodling decision(months, or years).

When I first invested in Bitcoin, I didn't know much about the positive aspects of holding Bitcoin for a long time. I had no such idea when I was new so may be the same problem for those who are new investors now. I feel that learning to invest in a long-term plan was the turning point in my investment life. If I didn't know that investing in long-term planning is possible, my investing might have been a bit like trading. Just as trading involves buying coins low and selling them high, I might have bought bitcoins low and sold them high. Now I know about long term investment so for me long term investment is more priority then trading or other things.

There are some investors who invested in Bitcoin with a long-term plan but they currently sell their investment at a small profit. This happens to many, but to those who do, you are not investing long-term, you are trading. I believe that once people get a taste of long-term investing, they will never invest in anything other than long-term planning.

No investor in a new state is fully educated or experienced. I also started investing a few months ago, but (I decided to sell my investment but (suddenly I saw JJG's post) since then I stopped selling my accumulated bitcoins. When bitcoin price was between 25k and 27k Then I started investing. And now my wallet portfolio has grown a lot. So I have now decided that I will keep my investment for more than 5 to 7+ years. Because I understand the signs of long term investment and I will definitely fulfill my plan because I Want to own 1 to 2 bitcoins.

Of course, when you start getting close to 5 years of either investing into bitcoin (and/or merely holding what bitcoin you had accumulated for that period of time), then you can reevaluate where you are at in terms of how many BTC you had accumulated and also consider the other individual factors (the 9 that I outlined), and you can figure out what you are going to do.. for example if you have reached 1-2 bitcoin, then are you going to transition into some kind of a BTC maintenance practice, or did you get into bitcoin merely in order to be able to buy something else and/or to invest into something else, and if so is there actually something that would be a superior place to put your bitcoin value, or might you consider the matter in a more incremental way in terms of not necessarily feeling a need to get completely out, even if you might decide some scenarios in which you might choose to shave off decent quantities of your bitcoin holdings, so for example if you had been able to get up to 1.5 Bitcoin in 5 years or so, then at that point, does it make sense to reduce some of your holdings, maybe selling 0.25 or even 0.5 BTC or maybe even more than that, and if you do sell to such a state that you are below 1 BTC, do you believe that you are going to be able to stay within a number of BTC that you would like to have in your maintenance stage... because maybe once you get close to 5 years or more, you might need to consider how you think about your bitcoin investment in comparison to other assets that you might own in different ways than you had previously.

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 07:49:23 AM

Quote from: Popkon6 on Today at 07:05:34 AM

Quote from: JoyMarsha on December 18, 2023, 10:20:47 PM

Quote from: khiholangkang on December 17, 2023, 06:37:15 PM

and HOLD BTC is the action you should choose

As believers of bitcoin, the most important lesson we were all given was how to become long-term holders of bitcoin in order to become profitable investors. If we can accomplish that, our bitcoin holdings should have generated returns for us in the future, depending on the duration of our bitcoin hodling decision(months, or years).

If you invest in Bitcoin for the long term, you will benefit the most. Because the only long-term hold on Bitcoin is the investor will be successful. So if a person wants to be successful in life, he should invest in Bitcoin for long term. Because I am waiting to get my success full from Bitcoin.

In Bitcoin you will find success in life if you can make a long term investment with difficulty in the beginning. Only the beginning has to have the ability to take such risks.

Investing in bitcoin in the long term will indeed be very profitable. Because it's not just a story or fantasy, but a lot of real evidence, that bitcoin investors who managed to control their emotions and managed to hold bitcoin until the price was high, were ultimately able to reap huge profits. Therefore, investing in Bitcoin in the long term is indeed the right thing to achieve maximum profits.

Currently, many of us definitely hold bitcoin, maybe some have a goal of holding it for a period of 1 year, 4 years, or even 10 years. But I assume there are many bitcoin investors who will quit (sell) in the next bull market. Due to bitcoin's 4-year cycle (halving) and subsequent bull market, it has become something of a transit point for many bitcoin investors to change paths and set new goals. The point is to take profit, then wait for the bitcoin market price to fall again, then buy bitcoin and hold it again.

Because I personally also plan to sell my bitcoin assets in the upcoming bull market, but of course at the price I was aiming for from the start.

Just because you are planning to sell your bitcoin with hopes of buying back cheaper, that does not necessarily mean that your plan is a good idea, to the extent that we are even talking about those selling on the way up ideas, especially your insinuation of both selling a large quantity of your coins and also your suggesting that you can buy it back on the way down, supposedly.

Even if you find that others are thinking in the similar kinds of ways as you, that does not necessarily mean that those kinds of ideas are good or even in line with the theme of this thread, which surely is referring to holding BTC in the long term, rather than perhaps your 2-3 year plan or your plan that is less than 4 years, since you seem to be wanting to play the waves of the cycle, which does not even seem to be the kinds of things that many of us are talking about in this thread.

So yeah, if you have been in bitcoin for maybe a bit more than a year as your forum registration shows, that may well indicate that you don't really appreciate the value of bitcoin as a longer term investment like someone who has been in bitcoin longer and who have held bitcoin longer and who have ended up benefiting quite stupendously from a compounding effect that comes from holding BTC over more than one cycle.. and yeah, sometimes you could end up getting some compounding effects from holding BTC within one cycle, yet how you going to know when to sell and when are you going to know when to buy back? Your plan of selling most if not all of your BTC at some point (or maybe various points on the way up - supposedly at or near the top) does not really sound that great, even if we might try to suggest that the ideas of your plan could be in line with some of the ideas of this thread, which is questionable at best.

Quote from: Popkon6 on Today at 08:16:04 AM

Quote from: Litzki1990 on December 18, 2023, 08:26:41 PM

[edited out]

Long-term investments are created based on the plans of all investors. Because if there is no proper plan then an investor can never invest long term without planning (a horse can never reach its destination without bridle). So first take the target for how many years should be invested. Since then I just want to buy number of bitcoins.

You can create targets based on a timeline or based on a certain level of coins that you want (or a dollar value) or maybe some combination of those, and surely the target might need to adjust depending on what your goals might be. If your goals is to be able to quit your job and then live off the combination of your bitcoin and the other assets in your investment portfolio, then that might be one kind of target, yet some people end up having differing kinds of targets, and surely you would not necessarily completely need to quit your job in order to have a target in which you are able to start drawing income (or supplemental income) from your coins.

You could have a pretty solid goal, but if you consider that there are stages to the goal, then you might consider that you have achieved some level of your goal at various points along the journey, and then once you reach certain kinds of intermediary goals, then however you might address your accumulation, your maintenance and/or your liquidation might change based on some of those intermediate stages.. so maybe holding bitcoin until an end point could be more of a journey for some of us rather than a destination - even though there is a bit of a combination of both and likely there are going to be intermediate benefits along the way, and perhaps even needs to struggle more in the more beginning stages, but be able to relax more as the bitcoin accumulation allows the HODLer to continue to realize that he is in a better and better place the longer that he holds and builds his bitcoin stash.. and I believe that I mentioned in another post that sometimes there is going to be a lot more flexibility in terms of which assets and funds serve as emergency funds when wealth is greater and when wealth is presumptively held in a variety of places..

Quote from: Popkon6 on Today at 08:16:04 AM

If you are buying Bitcoin 44k for the first time with ($$). In step 2 if you buy 42K ($$) for that amount of dollars then the average cost will be calculated to pay your DCA. If you can match your equation according to the plan then surely you can achieve long term investment success. Investors who plan to invest for five to ten years follow the DCA method at the right level and accumulate bitcoins for the long term.

I doubt that anyone is really going to know various trade offs in terms of whether some initial costs per BTC might be higher or lower, and part of the blindness of BTC is not necessarily knowing if it is going to be better to just continue to accumulate BTC with the passage of time rather than some kind of an attempt at lump sum buying into BTC, yet if someone might not even have any ability to lump sum into BTC, then maybe his ONLY real meaningful choice is just to buy BTC with whatever amount that he might have available at the end of the week, or bi weekly or monthly or perhaps some other period of time that works for his own cashflow and/or expenses situation.

Frequently the guy who DCA'ed into BTC may well might have ended up paying way more than other options that might be available, but the DCA allows for a kind of regular managing of funds and maybe even beingh somewhat aggressive about buying BTC, but not necessarily feeling as if he is being aggressive with his bitcoin investment - depending on how the DCA is set up - because surely giving up $100 per week for many many years, and even for 10 years can feel like a kind of suffering, since after one year it adds up to $5,200 and after 10 years it adds to $52k, and so there can feel like a kind of suffering, but maybe the person who DCA'ed into BTC is going to end up being able to invest way more into BTC because of the way that he did it, versus if he had to try to figure out how to invest $5k on a yearly basis, he might not end up investing into bitcoin, and so over so many years, there is an ability to feel some accomplishment without necessarily feeling overly deprived, even though some level of deprivation was happening for the whole period... So even though it is not guaranteed that the BTC investment will go up in value, even after 10 years, there is a certain level of hope that the BTC will go up in value during those 10 years of investing.

Quote from: Odohu on Today at 08:22:43 AM

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 05:41:48 AM

Exactly this is the best way to teach them and if anyone will start this method so with passage of time he/s will understand the how important it is and they will be in profit after 3 to 4 years uth they will continue this strategy for long time.

When I have not started using the DCA method, I have tried a few times to teach people about investing in Bitcoin. Unfortunately, the approach then was to put any amount they could afford with target of selling when the profits comes in. Then the hype of Bitcoin was at the peak and the internet was littered with testimonies of people who made huge amount from investing in Bitcoin and some other shitcoins. So my job of convincing them to invest in Bitcoin was not hard and some of them actually joined, saw profits within a short time and some sold while some others held for longer time.

What I later realised was that seeing how easy it was to make profits in Bitcoin, a lot of them went and sourced for more money to invest more without letting me know... some even borrowed money and bought at the peak. For those of them that could not sell when they should and are not ready to hold for long, their pains were expressed in various degrees and I listened to the agony with utmost surprise. Humans can actually be greedy and unpredictable.

Assuming I knew about the DCA method then, that would have made the job perfect because they would have started off with it already thereby eliminating the panic buy attitudes and quest for quick profits.

I am not sure if DCA completely stops people from getting greedy and trying to screw around with trading, but it does surely give them another tool, even though it is still needing to sink in ideas about longer term investing. Since I have been in a few cycles, I have some stories from each of the cycles. And, there can sometimes be stories that are quite frustrating, and I had people who got into bitcoin during this last cycle and one case I am thinking about in particular kind of bothers me because this is an adult who has several grown kids that he helps from time to time with various expenses but also that he likes to spend money on vacation, and has a couple of cars and a pretty nice house and some other nice things.. and so my recommendation was to begin at $100 per week, and this person said that he had so many problems with cash flow that he was ONLY going to start with $50 per week or something like that, and so yeah in the beginning his investment was up, but we know that there was another year or more between early to mid-2022 until the beginning part of 2023 and even through quite a bit of 2023 that there could have been questions about the profitability of such an investment, and maybe it was not really profitable until since late October until now after the BTC price went shooting up from about $27k to the mid-$40ks and now recently bouncing around in the lower to mid $40ks.

Just think about it. An investment of $100 per week since about June 1, 2021 would have resulted in about $13,400 invested and about 0.5 BTC (worth about $21k currently as I type this post, so surely now such an amount is in profits, but in mid to late 2023 there could have been some questions about how long the then dip was going to last, and my own lecturing of the person for selling some of those bitcoin in 2023 had to do with they did not even come close to taking the more assertive stance of $100 per week that I had suggested, but instead had said that they were going to invest about half that amount, which should have even been easier to weather through the 2022, 2023 difficulties, but the person did not have the ability to do the right thing and now suffers for having had sold and then having plans to buy back their position at a later date, and then the BTC price shoots up and it does not look like there is going to be any ability to buy back such position at anywhere near to the price that it was sold.

Quote from: cakravothy on Today at 10:24:31 AM

Quote from: Do or Die on Today at 09:44:59 AM

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 07:04:46 AM

Every new member knows how difficult the beginning was for them so we should help new members to make the beginning easier for new members. What to do in the long-term plan or what kind of steps an investor should follow in the long-term plan should be discussed with an investor in advance. Patience Belief Maximum Risk Acceptance All these things should be sufficient for a new investor who wants to invest in Bitcoin for long term.

Market timing is useless unless you are an experienced investor who understands technical analysis and high-level research. A dollar-cost-averaging strategy,(DCA) rather than trying to buy bitcoins at the right time, will be much more effective than buying bitcoins at the right time. Since Bitcoin is a long-term investment, you will regularly allocate a small amount to the digital token.

For this reason, you don't have to worry about whether you have timed your investment correctly – because your investments will be adjusted depending on their ratio

DCA requires large capital, because the average buy if coin down price. if you want a small capital dca buy it can start small. if not then it takes a very large capital to do the DCA strategy. and dca strategy is only suitable for coins with large capital at least in 10 big markets in coinmarketcap. if not it can happen like luna down the price of the coin until it is lost and worthless.

It seems that @adultcrypto and Frankolala largely already addressed several of the wrongness in the ideas of your post cakravothy, so yes, maybe it is worth repeating that DCA can be done with large and/or small and one of the advantages of being able to actually DCA into something like bitcoin is being agble to buy such small amounts, which frequently would not even have had been available to regular investors in historical times, because so frequently there were restrictions on size just to be able to get into various kinds of investments.

Surely shitcoins are also offering abilities to easily get in, too, but that does not mean that any of us should either be getting distracted by shitcoins or of the belief that DCA is going to work with any investment whether shitcoins or otherwise, unless there is some kind of an assessment that there is fundamental value to the investment and/or some kinds of an assessment that there are good chances that the coin (in this case bitcoin) is going to go up for the investment period, so perhaps 4-10 years or longer.

The mere fact that various shitcoins might have a large market cap or be in the top 10 market cap does not mean that they have any fundamental value, whether we are referring to that piece of crap known as ethereum or whatever other shitcoin that you would like to argue as being less shitty than other shitcoins, and again the mere fact that some coin or other investment might be less shitty than others does not cause it to be worthy investing into, especially in a long term DCA approach rather than an in and out approach.. which is different. and sure maybe you can get into various shitcoins and then get out of them and make money off of them, but that also does not necessarily mean that they are of high enough quality or value to employ a DCA (or a long term investment) approach to them.

Quote from: adultcrypto on Today at 01:08:50 PM

I even noticed that those with big capital will love to just buy at any price they consider good for them and not just follow the DCA that makes them wait to buy weekly or monthly as the case may be. Check all the whales entering the market, they just buy when they want to and do not follow any schedule.

Buying at any time that the company (or the whale) has the money can be a form of DCA, especially if there are many purchases over a period of time rather than one lump sum and then maybe another lump sum a year or two later, but if there are buys (or considerations to buy) ever quarter, which seems to be what MSTR does, those should be considered as forms of DCA.

Quote from: MFahad on Today at 07:39:47 PM

Quote from: Frankolala on Today at 06:31:21 PM

DCA approach can only be applied to bitcoin, this is because bitcoin has great potential and is likely to be more valuable with the timeline as long as you are in a long term investment. Another thing you should know is that DCA approach can be done by both the pleb and the rich which any amount even as low as $10. It depends on how much your income is and how you feel is best for you to start investing with.

Bitcoin investment is also good and DCA method is also the best, but considering the price of Bitcoin we must think that it requires a good amount of money to invest. Those with less capital and those with more capital can invest in it, but the one who invests the most can get the highest profit. I don't think a $10 DCA can make a good future profit in Bitcoin.

You are correct that the more that anyone is able to invest, then the more likely that they are going to be able to make greater levels of profits, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

If bitcoin is a good investment, then it does not matter how much you invest, and you can invest as much as you are able to invest, which will still put you at a better place than not investing into bitcoin.... and let's say that the person who invest $10 per week and invests for 10 years, ONLY ends up investing $5,200 into bitcoin, and that surely would have had worked out pretty good for someone who invested in the last 10 years because he would have had been able to accumulate right around 4.6 BTC over the past 10 years.

Surely we can probably assume that $10 per week for the next 10 years is not going to end up performing as well as it did in the past 10 years, and that is part of the reason that I started telling people to try to get into bitcoin at around $100 per week, because even that $100 per week is likely not even going to come close to performing as well as $10 per week, but it is better than nothing, and also, there are still a lot of people around the world who might even have to struggle to be able to consistently be able to invest $10 per week, but they should attempt to do what they can, and if they ONLY are able to invest $10 per week, then don't get deterred merely because you do not have a lot of extra money, but also don't over do it, because if you are not able to invest then you are not able to invest, but if you are able to either increase your cashflow(income) or to decrease your expenses, then you might be able to figure out some ways to be able to invest whatever you can whether that is $100 per week, $10 per week or some other amount that works for your own financial and psychological situation.

Quote from: MFahad on Today at 07:39:47 PM

One can do DCA according to the amount of income he has but choosing Bitcoin with less income I think may not be a good decision. If one has less savings then there are very good and strong projects in the market instead of Bitcoin where one can earn a good profit in future by investing through DCA. Altcoins can also be great for us so it would not be right to ignore them.

Fuck shitcoins. They are inferior to bitcoin and it is better to put $10 per week into bitcoin rather than some shitcoin. So get the fuck out of here with your nonsense in trying to suggest that a small budget justifies getting into shitcoin (in other words gambling).. So what you seem to be saying is that if you do not have very much money, then you should gamble rather than invest, which is a pretty reckless and even wrong assertion, even though I know that poor people will frequently get desperate and will frequently get lured into gambling because they believe that they have no possibility to get ahead by following more solid plans, such as investing in bitcoin, and hopefully you do not lead those persons into worse poverty than they already are.

Admittedly there are some folks who have to have cashflow because they don't have a very long investment time horizon or abilities to increase their income or to cut their expenses, and bitcoin might not be right for them, but that does not mean that they should be fucking around with shitcoins/trading and/or gambling merely because they have needs to stay more liquid in their investment because of their seemingly shorter investment time horizon.

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 10:27:43 PM

Quote from: adultcrypto on Today at 01:08:50 PM

[edited out]

I think it's like this if someone with small capital and also someone with large capital can both practice DCA as a way of investing in Bitcoin. For example, like Saylor, he accumulated a large amount of Bitcoin in one purchase and it was all because he had large finances and He also did it with DCA. So, the DCA strategy does not look at a person budget to apply it in their investment planning. Whether we make $10 per purchase it won't be a problem because we buy it regularly and we are targeting investment planning for a period of 30 years or for assets in our old age.

You are right about Saylor and MSTR.. they were following some variation of DCA, and not even much of a radical version. They seemed to have started with a lump sum investment in August 2020, but then continued to study bitcoin and to invest some of its cashflow and to reassess on a regular basis, but they also got pretty creative in variations of finances to raise money in various kinds of ways in order to be able to buy more and more bitcoin.. so they are way more aggressive than normal people too, but partly they are able to be aggressive because they have decently good and ongoing cashflow and also good abilities to raise money (which an overwhelming number of individuals and even other companies are not able to engage in those kinds of financial tactics) and some of that just ended up being way more than what regular people would do or should do, but it worked out good for Saylor and MSTR because even though some people believed that he was over doing it, he actually was not engaging in various rehypothecation and gambling strategies like some other entites and people were doing when they were over-leveraging their bitcoin , including Terra/Luna, 3AC, Celsius, Blockfi, Voyager, FTX/Alameda research, genisis/gemini, Grayscale.. and maybe some others, some of them were more damaged than others in the various recent cascading failures/ falling outs.

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 10:27:43 PM

That way, adjust the budget as best as possible so that we can do it regularly so that we can accumulate large amounts of BTC in our portfolio someday. Bitcoin is getting more limited from year to year until it eventually runs out in the mines and scarcity will occur at some point in the future.

Your way of framing this is strange, but I think that I understand what you mean, which is that less and less bitcoin is going to be issued, but the fact of the matter bitcoin is already scarce and it has a set supply, yet there are still another 1.5 million or so that are able to be issued over the next 110 years or so, and so since the supply is already set, the fact that fewer and fewer new coin are going to issue, the increases in the demand on bitcoin is going to continue to show bitcoin's scarcity as an ongoing important factor since there are not any other assets like bitcoin, even though there are various imitations.

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 10:27:43 PM

And when purchases increase, stocks thin because people will hold them for a long period of time for their retirement assets, then prices will rise unexpectedly.

They will be lost also.. meaning their keys will not be passed on upon death and there might be other ways that people end up losing access to their bitcoin.

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 10:27:43 PM

So that's where we will see the door to our success in the decades to come. Everything requires a process like what investors did in 2013 where they invested by accumulating at low prices and being able to hold it until reaching a new ATH and a new ATH in their investment period.

Well not ONLY 2013, but the earlier that anyone got into bitcoin the better, and even some folks started to stack their bitcoin (or their sats) at fairly inopportune times, but still if they continued to stack sats, whatever sats that they stacked at earlier dates are going to seem somewhat cheap at later dates, so even though I started stacking sats in late 2013, even the BTC that I was stacking at the top of the then price at $1,200 are seeming quite cheap right now, even though it took more than 3 years (from December 2013 until March 2017) for the BTC price to clearly and unequivocally return to prices that were higher than $1,200. The same might be said for various periods after that, and even 2017 was a super exponential upward price movement for BTC in which we largely went from the lows of mid $200s in late 2015 to $19,666 in late 2017, so even though BTC prices did recently return to below $19,666 prices for quite a few months in 2022, and even dipping once again to touch upon such mid-to upper $19k prices, those are again going to likely start to seem like cheap prices, even though it could still take a few more BTC cycles to start to feel such confidence that buying at or around $19k prices was quite cheap.. ..

So, even fairly wealthy people might have lump sum invested into bitcoin at various points, and they might have had been able to get cheaper prices than the person who consistently and persistently DCA'ed into bitcoin, yet one of the advantages that we learn from DCA is a certain amount of reinforcing of a kind of practice that has good chances of facilitating much more aggressiveness in terms of investing into BTC without really realizing how aggressive that the person had been over so many years or reinforcing beliefs with ongoing and persistent actions.