Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 04:26:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 22, 2023, 11:30:10 PM

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Everyone has its own strategy like you have. Some have bought in bear market and not DCAing they are holding tight. Some are those who are DCAing and dont think what the price is. Some are those who bought on high price and still waiting for that value and not DCAing. Means everyone has its own mind.

The mere fact that these various strategies exist or that people think about these matters in different ways does not even mean that the strategies (or the ways of thinking) are equally as good or even equally thought through or that they are particularly tailored to the circumstances to the person. Sometimes we might even tell someone that their strategy is dumb, even though it is a validly existing strategy that is based on their determination of how to manage their BTC accumulation, maintenance and/or accumulation - and maybe they are engaged in trading, and we can also proclaim that their strategy is valid, but it is dumb, especially when it comes to bitcoin, but such a strategy might be more valid when it comes to shitcoins in which most of the time it is likely better to establish entry and exit strategies rather than planning to hold such crap in the long term - and yeah, hopefully we are not treating our bitcoin holdings like that and hopefully we have assessed where we are at in our bitcoin journey in order to determine what strategy or combination of strategies is going to contribute towards our making progress towards reaching our goals, whether that be BTC accumulation, maintenance, liquidation or some combination of those that might emphasize one or the other at various points in time.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 04:26:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 22, 2023, 11:30:10 PM

Some times traders do not mind to take losses on certain parts of their investment/trading portfolio holdings in order that they can off-set gains that they made in other portions of their investment/trading portfolio holdings. Sometimes they purposefully choose to take losses to offset gains, and surely some of those kinds of accounting ideas, trading and gambling ideas are also deviating from the topic of this thread.. but sometimes we still may well acknowledge that some of the ideas that various longer term investors will propose will conflict with the ideas of shorter-term investors, and so sometimes we need to make sure that we are considering such comparisons, and not just proclaiming that there is ONLY one way to do things, even though many of us longer term investors likely engage in tactics that are way less complicating than what a trader might do, including when they are maybe employing various kinds of leverage or deploying other financial instruments in order to hedge their BTC long position.. and yes, those kinds of systems exist, even while in this thread, many of us probably recognize and appreciate that some of those tools might not even really be easily available to a lot of normie newbie investors, and the mere fact that you can even deploy such financial instruments does not even necessarily mean that you are going to have better results than the more basic ideas of ongoing, persistent and consistent BTC accumulation over a long period of time....and we have seen a lot of that better performance of the long term BTC accumulator/holder in bitcoin's history, even though a lot of those using financial instruments and trading will brag about various wins (or greater gains) that they are able to make from time to time, but they still likely do not end up outperforming basic accumulation and hodl strategies, especially if we look at longer periods of time, such as 4-10 years or longer.

It is also true that long term investors may have conflicting ideas with short term traders. Each approach has its own merits and considerations.

It sounds like you are subscribing to some relativistic way of thinking, which likely is not true. The various kinds of strategies can exist, but it does not necessarily meant that the strategies have been thought through or even have much if any merit, even though they might be trying to reach some kind of goal of getting rich quick, so they employ a certain kind of strategy with the belief that they have chosen the best strategy to meet their objectives, when the fact of the matter may well be that they have hardly any clue about how to achieve their objective or that the strategy that they have chosen is not going to work for their unrealistic goal that involves gambling, but they mistakenly believe that they are investing.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 04:26:04 AM

Long term investors often focus on consistent accumulation and holding of BTC over extended periods while traders may employ leverage and other financial instruments to hedge their positions and can seek short term gains.
Traders can get temporary happiness if their trade is in profit and also they can get sadness to if they will be in loss. But an investor dont care about it and he hold tight and don't involve his emotions in his investment.

A long term investor might consider trading - or selling in order to try to buy back cheaper, as employing too much risk and also putting himself outside of the right kind of ongoing and persistent accumulation mindset, so sure there could be some traders who out perform the longer term investor, but an overwhelming majority of times, the traders do not outperform the long term investor who is just accumulating bitcoin over time... and the longer the time, the more likely that the trader is going to underperform the longer term BTC investor... and sure, these are not absolutes nor are they guaranteed to continue to occur, even though so far they have been true in bitcoin's history..and there seems to be no reason to conclude that bitcoin's long-term investment thesis is getting weaker rather than stronger.

Quote from: Publictalk792 on Today at 04:26:04 AM

While these financial instruments and trading strategies (which a trader is using) may not be easily accessible to all investors(or they have access but they don't use) it is worth noting that the historical performance of long term BTC accumulation and holding has often out performed more complex trading strategies over long timeframes. While traders may boast about their occasional wins the consistent accumulation and holding strategy has proven to be effective.
And sometimes traders close the trade in loss because they think that they will get profit from other trades. And mostly traders lose many things here. When they lose 2 to 4 time they just become emotional and in emotions a man can make bad decisions which can led them to loss.

There can be some traders who win on a vast majority of their trades, but in bitcoin, historically there have sometimes been such violent upward moves in the BTC price that never end up returning, so if a person is not long into bitcoin at the time, or if a person had shorted without a sufficiently strong stoploss, it may well end up that the person ends up losing out upon years worth of gains all because they failed/refused to have a long position in bitcoin at a time that ends up being crucial to the profitability of their BTC holdings.

Quote from: Gallar on Today at 04:32:54 AM

And a little advice from me, when you do DCA, you should send your bitcoins to your wallet at least every two accumulation periods. Because currently bitcoin transaction costs are quite high. So to minimize this, it's a good idea to collect bitcoins on the exchange first, and if you have collected a large amount of bitcoins, then send them to your wallet. Moreover, you like to do DCA on bitcoin with small amounts.

Yep. BTC accumulators should be trying to figure out the size of their UTXOs, so that they are able to have options in the future, especially if there are periods in which the transaction fees might unexpectantly go higher for a certain period of time, and there could even be instances in which they stay high for long periods of time.

If someone is ONLY accumulating $10 per week, then maybe they have to wait several months, even 6-12 months (or even longer) before they send their accumulated BTC holdings to private BTC addresses, and personally I am not trying to encourage holding BTC on exchanges, but it may well be more practical to make sure that a person does not have his BTC in UTXO sizes that become either unspendable or just way too expensive to spend, and even someone with $200 worth of BTC in a UTXO might not want to spend 1/4 or $50 on transaction fees to send it, but if the person has $5k in a UTXO, then spending $50 to send it might be considered reasonable (or acceptable).

I know that some folks had already explained and/or theorized that poor people are disproportionately affected by periods in which the BTC transaction fees are really high and also that BTC transactions seem to be unwarranted for smaller sized transactions, and these also could be purposeful attacks on bitcoin in order to dissuade poor people from getting involved in bitcoin, and that truly could end up working to the disadvantage of poor people who do not figure out ways to accumulate bitcoin without incurring high transaction fees, and so what kinds of transaction options that are available is going to vary from location to location, and not everyone is going to have access to lower fee kinds of options in order to accumulate BTC, which likely does not stop BTC's price from going up, but it does end up scaring (or dissuading) some poorer people from getting involved in bitcoin, even though it would be to their advantage to consistently and persistently accumulate BTC during these times rather than waiting.

Quote from: MusaPk on Today at 08:19:54 AM

Quote from: ginsan on December 22, 2023, 10:43:59 PM

I think everyone who invests in Bitcoin definitely has time to organize their purchases and why DCA is so popular because they invest in the long term with hundreds of purchases throughout their investment journey. Of course DCA is the best and maybe buying at the same time is not too popular if the market situation is bullish. Apart from that, at a special level, continuing to pay attention to the charts is of course not something that everyone can do because they don't have much time due to their busy work, therefore those who focus on DCA will visit the market when their purchases are due and they do it like once every two months or once a month.

And it is true as stated by JJG because in point 8 where we can change our formation when the market situation changes suddenly, that is, we make purchases before the time comes in the composition of the list of purchases that we will make. It all depends on the situation because they can act more aggressively when the market turns red and can also accumulate more when the market falls 10%.

Techniques like technical, fundamental and sentiment analysis aid anyone who is investing but they do require time and expertise which everyone dont have. If I talk about myself I dont have expertise to in TA, FA and SA, thats why I follow DCA.

The idea of the importance of SA is stupid, especially when it comes to long term investment, and sure we are talking about buying on dips too.. so sure, sometimes we might want to consider what is a sufficient dip to buy and how much BTC to buy at each dipping point, which is difficult to determine, and still I doubt that SA is going to be very helpful, even though sure people do use that kind of nonsense, which sometimes means going with the sentiment and other times going against it.. but still seems like a BIG waste of time to playing with those kinds of nonsensical measures to guide what to do or what not to do... which then leads you to the conclusion of DCA'ing, which does seem to be the right outcome, but still SA that is a dumb thing to try to use or even to think about as a meaningful guide for action... but it does sound like one of tools of traders and shitcoiners.

Quote from: MusaPk on Today at 08:19:54 AM

I was doing a small research that how much effective DCA will be on https://dcabtc.com/ and comes up with following data. If you doing DCA 100 dollar per week then here are results:

What I conclude from above table is that even DCA may not be effective over a small period of time but over a longer duration like 4 years or more.

Your numbers are wrong and with that dcabtc.com website you need to manually calculate your level of profits, so let me show you with the 3 year period.

So yes, you are correct that $100 per week would result in right around $15,700 invested over three years, and that would also result in about 0.5518 BTC (which today has a market value of about $24,280 (which is an average cost per BTC of about $28,452 ($15,700/0.5518) and a profit amount of about 55% ($24,280/$15,700)). Your table shows losses of nearly 9%.. which surely is not correct, and perhaps some error of the site because the amount accumulated would end up being 0.5518 over 3 years which is truly profitable by 55% and not a 9% loss. You can recalculate for each of the time periods and come up with differing results, but the trend is generally that every period is currently up, and the longer that you have been in then probably the greater your actual profits, even though the percentages might vary along the way, and I don't necessarily feel like going through each of those calculations myself to show the correct results, but I do use that DCAbtc.com website on a regular basis, and I have found that I have to perform some of the calculations manually in order to get the correct results. There are some other DCA calculating websites out there too.. such as https://dcacryptocalculator.com/bitcoin and https://costavg.com/

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 12:05:21 PM

Quote from: JoyMarsha on December 22, 2023, 10:28:27 PM

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Bitcoin is now at a high price to catch up and knowing that Bitcoin is at a high price anyone who invests in Bitcoin now is not a fool but may be investing in DCA strategy. I don't believe in the idea that you always have to buy bitcoin at low prices. Yes, I don't agree that buying bitcoins at a low price is more profitable if the price goes up later, but many investors can't wait for the price of bitcoins to go down. Investing is difficult for people who only plan to invest and wait for the price of Bitcoin to fall.

It is always better to buy BTC at lower prices rather than higher prices, but part of the problem is the inability to know that the BTC price is going to get any lower than it is now or at any other time in the future. Sure, you can have theories and speculation that the BTC price is going to dip at some point in the future, but if you are wrong and the price never dips, then you are preparing for BTC prices to go down and at the same time, you may well be insufficiently and inadequately prepared for the BTC prices to go up. So frequently it is not going to be worth the potential cost of waiting unless you have already accumulated a sufficient and adequate amount of BTC to be prepared for UP.

ONLY you can determine if you have enough BTC to be prepared for UP or not, and you may end up being wrong about that, which may be why some people did not accumulate in the last year and a half while BTC prices were way lower than they are currently, and then now they are feeling regrets because they could have had accumulated more bitcoin at much lower prices.

At the same time, we cannot go back in time, and we can only figure out and follow through with our BTC accumulation strategy based on current conditions and our knowledge about such current conditions, and part of our knowledge should include the fact that we do not know with any level of certainty if the BTC price is going to go up or down from here, especially in the shorter-term, but we may have some ideas that in the longer term, BTC prices are likely going to be higher than they are today... There are no guarantees that the BTC prices of the future will be higher than they are today, but if we are going to prepare for the future, it would be good that we are prepared for the possibility that BTC prices are higher in the future than they are today and we act upon that possibility. If we choose NOT to act upon such possibility, then that is our choice, and maybe we will regret it, and maybe we won't.

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 12:05:21 PM

Our plan is to buy bitcoins at a relatively high price there for a long period of time so it won't affect our investment too badly. In case of long term investment we don't need to see much profit and loss because if we see excess market then it is difficult for us to hold the investment.

There are many investors who planned to invest in Bitcoin price from $20K to $25K but at that time they thought that this may be the peak of the Bitcoin market and from this position they waited for the market to go down but the market did not go down due to which they not invested.

I recall having a conversation with a relative around the middle of 2022 when the BTC prices were right around $20k, and I told him that BTC prices were seeming to be pretty low, and that this might be a good time to get into bitcoin. He asked me what if this might end up being the top, then that could be possible right? I told him that he is correct that it could end up being the top, and no one really knows, and sure, he ended up being correct for about 6 months between the middle of 2022 and the beginning of 2023, the BTC prices were largely suppressed and they really went below $20k and all the way down to $15,479, but then we also know that they largely went up from the beginning of 2023, even though we also did experience another correction below $20k in early March, and so he was right for a period of time, even though it also ended up that with a bit of patience and a bit of knowledge and confidence in regards to what bitcoin is, there could have had been some great investing opportunities to be building a BTC position during that time, while at the same time we cannot go back in time, and we have to consider what we are going to do, in regards to our bitcoin holdings, from today rather than looking at what we might have done or what we could have done, and sure if we did continue to accumulate BTC during 2022, then we would likely be feeling ourselves to be in a pretty good and even strong position as of right now... maybe depending upon how aggressive that we were in our BTC accumulation as compared with how aggressive that we could have had been during that time period based on our own circumstances that should involve making sure that we are prepared for UP, just in case UP ends up happening.

Quote from: Litzki1990 on Today at 12:05:21 PM

Again this year when bitcoin reached 30000 dollars it was the highest price of bitcoin touched this year but at that time those who invested managed to come up to $45K with their investment but those who did not invest are still waiting for the market to go down.

Since the plan is for a long time, investing without thinking so much, we should only keep the investment for a long time.

It can be quite difficult to front-load our bitcoin investment, and that is part of the reason that long-term and persistently ongoing BTC accumulation may well end up having great payoffs in the future, and sometimes it may well not matter too much if the average cost per BTC ends up being higher than what it may well might have had been, and so for example, we can see that those people who were sitting on the fence in August, September and October of this year, may well be feeling like they should have had acted rather than NOT doing anything because we have had a pretty strong appreciation in BTC prices since $26k/$27k in mid-October until now being in the $44k price arena.. and so it is difficult to know if we are going to be getting any significant and/or meaningful price appreciation in the coming near term future.. Sure it could happen that we do get a 20% to 35% correction that might bring us back into the lower to upper $30ks, but at the same time, there surely is no guarantee of any such correction of that magnitude now. .even though during BTC bull runs, historically we have frequently experienced 30% to 50% price corrections, even during the midst of a bull run... but they are not guaranteed to happen, and even if we end up getting up to $55k or higher before having a significant BTC price correction, it might end up being that our correction from $55k might not reach 30% to 50% levels, even if it does end up happeing to be 20%, which would bring prices back down to our current $44k prices.