Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on Today at 07:14:37 AM

Quote from: OgNasty on December 26, 2023, 08:40:39 PM

You still didn't answer my question... You think vendors appreciate you sending them obfuscated funds from a known money laundering operation?

Merchants cannot expect from their clients to do blockchain analysis. To me, that understands to neither appreciate, nor disregard. Simply, neutral. Be it ChipMixer chips, Samurai whirlpool coinjoins, coinbase rewards; they all are acceptable, otherwise Bitcoin falls apart as currency.

Maybe I shall repeat it once more, just in case you think I haven't answered for the 4th time: I don't feel it harms the vendors.

Quote from: OgNasty on December 26, 2023, 08:40:39 PM

Using a private protocol doesn't amount to money laundering just because it's private. Isn't that your whole argument for mixers in the first place?

Blame me for not have drunk coffee yet, but what do you mean by "doesn't amount to money laundering"? Just because Monero is private by the protocol, it does not mean you cannot launder money. Anyone using it can be subjected of being part of a pool with large anonymity set, just as with mixers.

Quote from: OgNasty on December 26, 2023, 08:40:39 PM

Purposely laundering the funds and having them sent to vendors is quite different from someone not knowing where their funds came from and spending them.

Quote from: OgNasty on December 26, 2023, 08:40:39 PM

In a court of law this would be the difference between unintentional ignorance and intentionally obfuscating their source, which is illegal.

Two questions:

- Why is a mixer user considered purposely laundering funds but a Monero user not?
- Why is a mixer user considered intentionally obfuscating the coin source but a Monero user not?

(BTW, I completely disagree that a mixer user is absolutely some sort of evil prick that is purposely laundering funds.)

Quote from: OgNasty on December 26, 2023, 08:40:39 PM

That removes the "intentionally obfuscating their source" by users, which is what makes using mixers money laundering. This isn't fantasy, it's reality.

No, it is fantasy; an unreasonable piece of mind. Using Monero or mixing decentrally (e.g., Joinmarket) should be rightly considered a very intentional action of obfuscation the source.

Quote from: OgNasty on December 26, 2023, 08:40:39 PM

I don't even understand why you're against making a private protocol instead of relying 3rd parties. Just so you can get paid to spam here? Relying on 3rd parties is against everything Bitcoin represents in my opinion. The exact opposite of self sovereignty.

I'm all in for a private protocol, and that's why I recommend and use Monero and coinjoin. However, I do believe that someone might want to use a mixer for the pricing or the comfort that comes with it, as I have used them for the same reasons in the past.

Quote from: Synchronice on December 26, 2023, 09:22:31 PM

By the way, 7TB can be a speculation to frighten people and make them believe that no mixer follows its no-log promise and they are all dangerous. Makes sense, right? But no one knows the truth.

And since no one knows the truth, the safest approach is to not engage in bareless speculation.

If I mine monero at a daily profit I am not money laundering.

Above is a Very solid argument which would stand up in USA tax courts.

If I mine monero at a loss and hodl it speculatively I could likely do it for 3 years before I have a tax issue and not money laundering but I would be forced to say it is a hobby.

Also very solid argument that stands up in US tax court.

If I put coins in to a mixer in order to not be money laundering I need proof of full kyc .
I need proof of how I got the coins with good documentation.

I run the risk of my fairly or truly coins being tainted by hacker coins.

So yeah a monero miner is cleaner
than a btc miner trying to hide just how big his stash is using a mixer.

all based on my general us tax law knowledge.

None of the above should be taken as factual as I am not a tax lawyer or a lawyer of any kind.