Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 04:14:25 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:10:02 PM

Even though I agree with part of your overall point that the longer that anyone had been investing into bitcoin, then the more likely that the investment would have had ended up paying off.. which yes, could be considered as a form of patience and/or a form of deferred gratification.

At the same time, I think that it is not very realistic to be trying to make modern day comparisons to the situation that was available close to the time that bitcoin was just finding it's price, and even if we start from a later date, such as early 2012, when bitcoin was at $4 per BTC, it still might not be realistic to be considering those kinds of prices as realistic entry prices for any normal and regular people because they would have had to have been in some kind of niche group, and sure they might have been merely lucky in that regard, but probably the various developments in 2012 and 2013 did bring bitcoin more and more to the attention of more regular people.

Well, I reasoned it too maybe the way I placed it but in one way still linked to patience, Bitcoin was once a shit coin but at that shitty state there were some positive factors showing there would be a good outcome on like other shitty coins which pump and dumb in a short period of time after it's being launched(this pumps are not even up to a $)

You might have the gist of an understanding that bitcoin differs from shitcoins, but bitcoin was never a shitcoin, so you likely do not really understand bitcoin sufficiently enough to even frame how come bitcoin has gone up from pennies (or having hardly any value and then into the 10s of thousands of dollars - its current price range.

I am not sure if it is worth it to go down this path very much, but if you think about bitcoin as having had been a paradigm shifting break through in regards to its solving the ability to create digital scarcity, then you might see that almost all of the shitcoins are merely trying to copy bitcoin or to create affinity scams or to engage in the printing of money, so bitcoin actually invented something innovative, and shitcoins are not really inventing anything innovative.. so if you are trying to consider bitcoin having a similar life as shitcoins, but bitcoin is only advantaged because it was earlier, then you are not really understanding bitcoin very well.. and yeah, a lot of shitcoiners, bitcoin naysayers, no coiners and just unknowledgeable people (in regards to bitcoin) talk about bitcoin in those kinds of superficial and misleading kinds of ways.

Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 04:14:25 PM

You said developments in 2012 and 2013 did brought attention but who knows there could be some future developments, some time patience could be a risk but once you are sure of what you are having patience on then, just have hope look forward to a positive effect.

I was just referring to the ongoing ways that bitcoin was continuing to grow and even to transition between the very earliest niche stages and to become more mainstream, but even if we might say that bitcoin became more mainstream in 2012 and 2013, bitcoin still is not very mainstream, and it may well be the case that less than 1% of the world's population owns any bitcoin, and even if some of them own it, they don't own any kind of substantial amount...and owning shitcoins does not count to owning bitcoin, even though some folks might end up coming to bitcoin after starting out with being involved in shitcoins.

Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 04:14:25 PM

A life example is everyone going to high-school, college, uni with the view of getting a job we all trust the process but not all will make use of that certificate and not all will get rich from the Job. This might not really relate but in one way talking about taking the risk of going to school because we expect a good outcome from it but we eventually taking what life throws at us.

You are still making comparisons that fail/refuse to appreciate the intensity of the significance of bitcoin's invention, that differentiates it from other projects.. Paradigm changing means that bitcoin has changed the world forever in regards to what it has brought to the world in terms of both solving the digital scarcity problem, but also building in quite a few innovative ways with proof of work and the difficulty adjustment and various kinds of incentives around both mining and holding the coin.

Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 04:14:25 PM

This doesn't mean anyone reading this should go out and start buying all sort of shitty coins Grin

, I don't think there would be a coin like Bitcoin again even if there will be, by now we should have a contender at 10k, no one can predict the future but it will be rare to find such .

Careful with being mislead by unit value.. because there are various shitcoins and tokens (and NFTs) that have had higher per unit pricing, and also be careful when comparing bitcoin's market cap to various shitcoins too.. sure there can be some value in making some of those comparisons, but they can also be misleading indicators in regards to what makes bitcoin valuable and how you might measure such value... sure price is one of them... but not the only way of measuring value.

Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 04:14:25 PM

All I'm saying is have at least some little patience Cheesy

, even if you invest now and you have no patience you might endup leaving at an unripe target point fine! you made some profits but is it worth it

Of course, there are a lot of people who have gotten in and out of bitcoin and experienced dollar profits, but that frequently is not as valuable as experiencing various compounding effects that come from going through several doublings and then having more and more options.. and some times guys catch a wave too, so they get in and out, and I have my doubts in regards to the extent that there is much value in merely cashing out of fiat profits, even if some of them might also figure out ways to buy back most if not all of the coins that they sold.. and sometimes they even figure out how to buy back more coins than they sold.. . .. but selling to accumulate is probably not as sound of a practice as buying to accumulate... if your goal happens to be to accumulate BTC.. even if you measure the value of the BTC in terms of its fiat value (nothing wrong with that).

Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 04:14:25 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:10:02 PM

That is not a very fair and/or accurate characterization of the Lazlo pizza situation, even though a lot of people characterize Lazlo's pizza situation in that kind of inaccurate way.

Well I mad3 that as a joke not being serious about it though i thought of it too:

A lot of people make that same joke. It is a pretty lame joke because it is not very accurate and it spreads the wrong ideas, even though it is the idea that you were trying to spin in order to tell a story about the value of patience... which is not a bad story to tell, but your whole approach to talking about patience in your last post was not a very realistic or even experientially based (which probably would have had been better to bring some story from your own life rather than mischaracterizing an historical event in a commonly mischaracterized way)..

Quote from: promise444c5 on Today at 04:14:25 PM

---For him to have 10k Bitcoins then he probably has more than that and having so much of it means he probably saw potential in it and knows there will be a future appreciation in the price. Although, I never knew he was a minner until now , I even looked it as a way of gaining attention as on how Bitcoin could be used as a payment of goods.

It goes to show that you were making a pretty superficial point, even if there were some accuracies in it.. but I would still question how helpful it is to continue with the discussion of such point.

Quote from: Gaza13 on Today at 04:17:36 PM

Quote from: DeathAngel on Today at 03:24:48 PM

I feel a mixture of emotions when I look at my Bitcoin wallet. I feel lucky & happy that I was early enough to build a not unsubstantial stash. I feel glad that I was able to invest because the alternative places to store your wealth are not good. Maybe I feel slightly unsatisfied as even though I have a decent stash I should have more.

What you feel, I do too. Yes, even though someone has their own problems with financial limitations, and they want to add little by little, I think this person knows the future of this asset. I am happy or proud to be able to get to know this asset, compared to my own environment which doesn't know about investment, of course I have a different experience from these other people.

"of course I have a different experience from these other people"

Which is? What is your different experience? Pray tell.

Quote from: Wiwo on Today at 04:58:31 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:43:29 PM

From your mentioning of an aspiration for getting to 1 whole coin, that likely is becoming more and more unreachable by newbie bitcoiners, so each of us just need to attempt to create BTC accumulation targets that are reasonable for our own circumstances, so maybe we start out striving to get 1 million satoshis, and then after we reach that we might strive for 5 million, and then 10 million and then 21 million and then 50 million.. and gosh, if we end up getting to 50 million, then we have reached 0.5 BTC... so we do what we can, and it could still be possible to reach 1 BTC or multiple BTC, but likely not very possible or easy for normie no coiners who have not yet even started to take bitcoin accumulation seriously enough to figure out a plan to get started in their BTC accumulation journey as soon as possible.

Having to beat ourselves by trying to go beyond our reach in bitcoin accumulation due to the time and mistakes of the past is some how a bad approach and since I already know that fact, I put every regret or missed chances of accumulating bitcoin when the price was more affordable, bit at instance it best to take thing as easy as possible because on the long run, what matters is the ability to resolve able to hold something tangible as out Bitcoin portfolio in the long run.

Let say in the next two to three years from now we should be in a better position where we already achieve what we thought we had missed,

It can be very difficult to potentially chase the price up, so there can be a lot of mistakes along the way, but even my own tentative ideas about how many BTC I wanted to accumulate in a certain amount of time, and how much I had expected to pay for them, my own performance ended up substantially beating my expectations, even though I also made quite a few mistakes along the way.

Yet, it seems to me that each of us is capable of making some projections (maybe using an Excel spreadsheet or maybe doing it on paper),and we can project out worse case scenario, best case scenario, base case scenario, and we can even project out various alternative outcomes, and surely one of the advantages of Excel spreadsheet is that we can end up copying./pasting or even saving various scenarios, but we can also set it up so that we can change some of the variables and then see how the future numbers play out...

I frequently will suggest planning around worse case scenarios, but still being able to see the various possible scenarios will also help us to figure out what kinds of probabilities we might assign to various scenarios, and that will help us to solidify what we believe is our base case scenario (which is the one that we might consider to have the highest likelihood of happening) but even if it is the scenario with the highest likelihood, that still does not mean that it will end up being the one that ends up happening... so the more that we play around with various kinds of these kinds of projections, the better we should become at outlining scenarios that are somewhat realistically aligned with our expectations and maybe even to cause our expectations to be more realistic.. because sometimes some of us might get too much caught upon the happening of some narrow set of events and maybe we learn through experiences of plotting things out that our own expectations are frequently skewed in a certain direction that we need to fix and to attempt to become more realistic in terms of how we project and then also how we might choose to prepare once we have outlined a variety of possible scenarios.

So another thing that I like to do is to end up exceeding expectations because I plan based on worser case scenarios, and almost inevitably things end up turning out better than expected...even though it may well end up being likely that the better case scenario had also been in the projection of possibilities, but it just was not relied upon... and there are needs to attempt to have some balance in all of this because preparing for outrageously up and outrageously down scenarios can also be helpful, even if they do not end up happening, but by going through a process of projecting out, there is a decent amount of financial and/or psychological preparation for all (any) of them.

Quote from: Wiwo on Today at 04:58:31 PM

and are in a good financial status through our Bitcoin holding, and at that point, it becomes clear to us that Bitcoin is a lifetime journey and not some early birds only things,

Through this forum (and even in my own journey) I have found a lot of members who have tailored their approaches to bitcoin to become much more solid based on going through various exercises to figure out their own situation as compared to their bitcoin holdings. So there is some pleasure to see guys learning and adapting along the way.

Quote from: Wiwo on Today at 04:58:31 PM

because when it comes to Bitcoin investment, what really matters is two things and that is.

1: the amount of capital you have to invest in Bitcoin

2: how much time you are ready to hold your investment and what you choose to do with your extra income while you waiting for that time to be achieved.

I have my doubts that they are the ONLY two factors or even if they are the most important factors, and at the same time, any of the factors can kind of be moving targets in which sometimes a bitcoin investor might have his shit together more in regards to one or another factor, but still the changing of one factor could affect other factors. I personally like to consider 9 different factors, and some aspects of your factors are included in my 9 factors.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 15, 2021, 02:10:03 AM

......individual factors that influence your decision whether to invest into bitcoin and how to invest into bitcoin have financial, skills and psychological components that include:
1)   your cashflow,
2)   how much bitcoin you have already accumulated,
3)   your other investments (including cash reserves),
4)   your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments,
5)   your timeline,
6)   your risk tolerance,
7)   your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets, which includes figuring out the extent that you are in BTC accumulation, maintenance or liquidation stage),
8 )   your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time,
9)   your considering your time, your abilities and whether to trade, reallocate from time to time, to use of leverage and/or to use financial instruments... (and for sure the use of financial instruments, leverage and margin trading involve higher level skills and are not even necessary to still become richie in bitcoin's already existing asymmetric bet.)