Quote from: joker_josue on Today at 12:51:22 PM

Quote from: cryptosize on Today at 11:57:39 AM

Arguing for the sake of arguing much? Roll Eyes

You didn't answer my questions, you just keep making new questions demanding answers...

What answer do you want me to answer?
How am I going to talk about a technology that doesn't exist today, or rather that isn't viable for a forum of this size, mainly because I don't have the resources to invent something like that?

What I can say is that creating a decentralized forum today is impossible and completely unfeasible.

The example I gave was torrent, not BitTorrent. BitTorrent is a torrent client, which is clearly not decentralized.
Do you know how torrent works? So imagine the same for the website. How can an ordinary person access a website, without having to install specific software, download the entire database that can be larger than a 4K Blu-ray movie, and then browse?

But wait, it only takes 1 byte to depend on one person, so it won't be decentralized.

Is Bitcoin decentralized? Yes, yours because anyone can set up a node and run it. But, Bitcoin is linear and not dynamic. It is mathematical work, always the same, that always produces the same type of data. A forum is highly dynamic, where all users produce different content, where features change over time, and many other things happen in a matter of seconds.

It cannot be compared when the type of data transmitted is always the same, with other services that are very varied in terms of data. The greater the data variation, the more complex and longer the processing process.

I'm not saying that in the future there won't be something really functional that makes this type of site decentralized. But at the moment it doesn't exist. Therefore, I cannot demand the forum to become decentralized.

Again: arguing for the sake of arguing (semantics). Had a bad day or what?

The protocol (never said anything about clients) is officially called BitTorrent, just like Bitcoin is called Bitcoin. I've been using torrents for 20 years, I don't need lecturing.

You also dismissed this post for some strange reason:

Quote from: cryptosize on January 01, 2024, 11:49:18 PM

I reckon we can have a decent decentralized forum protocol if FTTH (100 Mbps upload) becomes the baseline.

With ADSL (1 Mbps upload) it's not really possible... ADSL is fine for BTC, that's why Satoshi released it in 2009 (when ADSL was already becoming the norm).

I never said a decentralized forum protocol is feasible right now, don't put words in my mouth.

I said we need higher upload to create more elaborate decentralized apps (whether it's a forum or Artificial Intelligence to rival the centralized ChatGPT).

Back in 2003 many people didn't even have ADSL, they were stuck in dial-up (even in the US). Therefore it was not a good time to release Bitcoin (even if it was ready).

Nobody "demands" anything, not even Theymos (but he clearly wants a decentralized forum WHEN it becomes feasible!).

Have some patience and don't be such a pessimist.

Quote from: LoyceV on Today at 01:33:15 PM

Quote from: joker_josue on Today at 11:51:57 AM

It's just that not even torrents - perhaps the most decentralized products that exist on the internet - are really decentralized. Roll Eyes

Torrents with Magnet links are as decentralized as it gets: one link, that can be shared on different websites and any other way you want, contains all the information you need to connect to multiple different trackers. The trackers will connect you to other people sharing and downloading the files you want. I don't think there's a limit to the number of trackers, seeders and leechers, so it's pretty decentralized.

True.

You don't even need a tracker with DHT/PEX. Peers will be found automatically.

Quote from: LoyceV on Today at 01:33:15 PM

The problems become evident when older, less popular torrents no longer have seeders. I've seen torrents with many incomplete leechers and no full seeders. If that happens to your decentralized forum, it basically ends.

That's the big failure of BitTorrent IMHO: it doesn't have applied game theory.

Seeding is basically charity work (same for BTC nodes), unlike BTC mining which rewards you handsomely.

Quote from: NotATether on Today at 01:35:10 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on Today at 01:33:15 PM

Quote from: joker_josue on Today at 11:51:57 AM

It's just that not even torrents - perhaps the most decentralized products that exist on the internet - are really decentralized. Roll Eyes

Torrents with Magnet links are as decentralized as it gets: one link, that can be shared on different websites and any other way you want, contains all the information you need to connect to multiple different trackers. The trackers will connect you to other trackers, and to other people sharing and downloading the files you want. I don't think there's a limit to the number of trackers, seeders and leechers, so it's pretty decentralized.
The problems become evident when older, less popular torrents no longer have seeders. I've seen torrents with many incomplete leechers and no full seeders. If that happens to your decentralized forum, it basically ends.

They are also banned by many home ISPs so even though this is already an impractical solution to host a forum or perhaps even a BBS (if you want to go retro), there are also legal implications to this as well.

You can use VPN. China doesn't have the most free internet access and yet, people use VPNs to avoid restrictions.

Internet is decentralized, since TCP/IP is a permissionless protocol (just like Bitcoin).