Quote from: Su-asa on January 04, 2024, 08:40:11 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 29, 2023, 07:19:04 PM

I agree that a person should not be dipping into his emergency funds for BTC buys, but there could be situations in which it makes sense if there is variability in income and expenses, and there is also a decent sized emergency fund. There also may be decisions to buy a certain quantity of BTC no matter what, so if the cashflow over several months is fluctuating, the income might not meet expenses, and yet there still might be expectations that the following months or the month after, the emergency fund will be able to be diminished with the short-fall, and part of the reason to have an extra large sized emergency fund is to be able to buy BTC every month/week. . or whatever might be the priority that is pre-established.

Anybody that uses funds for emergencies to invest in Bitcoin is not a wise investor because problems can come at anytime when he/she will need some money that he will use to settle down some things that needs to be settled..
Having an emergency funds might make an investor to hold more longer than he or she planned to hold. Reasons are because when you are saving and still accumulating Bitcoin and on the other hand you have funds for emergencies, then what will the person want to sell his coins for? Nothing,,, unless they will want to use some of the profits to complete a project and other things that can be bring more money to them during the week or month.

There are some people who works in a company that don't pay workers salaries on time (delays payments) and those people if they are invest in Bitcoin and they are not saving some funds for emergencies and just saving for nothing, by the time month end and there is no payment they will want to sell some coins and use the money to support them self untill payment is made.

Even though you are correct that if an emergency fund is not very robust, then a person probably should never use the fund for anything other than emergencies.

However, I doubt that there is any strict rule in regards to whether someone might choose to use his emergency funds - so maybe if I exaggerate the hypothetical a bit more, you might be able to understand how an emergency fund might be used in a floating kind of way.

Let's say for example, a person starts investing into bitcoin, and at the same time he is building up his emergency fund, and so his regular salary ranges between $300 and $1,200, and most of the time, his salary is more $700. His expenses are right around $500, and let's say that he has 2 months of expenses saved up in his emergency fund saved up ($1k), but he wants to get his emergency fund up to between 3 and 6 months ($1,500 to $3k)... and so maybe he will not really be comfortable buying bitcoin until he get's his emergency fund up to 3 months, but he does not want to forgo investing into bitcoin, so he decides that he is going to buy $50 worth of bitcoin no matter what, so long as his income for the month is greater than $550, which is $50 greater than his expenses, and if the income for the month comes in greater than $550, then he will split the extra between his emergency fund and buying bitcoin, so if he ends up earning $1k for the month, then he has made $500 extra, so he could put $250 into bitcoin and $250 into his emergency fund.

Maybe he also decides while his emergency fund is between 3 months and 6 months, he is going to buy $100 worth of bitcoin no matter what, and so there could be some cases in which, and sure there could be cases in which he has to dip within his emergency fund to accomplish that, especially if his income were less than $500 for the month.

So then maybe once he gets his emergency fund up to 6 months, he might decide to buy $500 in bitcoin each month no matter what, and there also could be cases that he ends up dipping into his emergency fund.

Let's say that he continues to invest and build his emergency fund, and his emergency fund has gotten up to 9 months worth of expenses (which would be $4,500), so at that point, he might decide to buy $1k worth of bitcoin every month no matter what until his emergency fund goes back to 6 months, and then if his emergency fund goes back down to only 6 months, he will modify his approach to be more conservative at that time.

I am merely giving this as an example to show that there could be cases in which an emergency fund ends up being greater than it needs to be, so then there could be choices to dip into that emergency fund, based on the size of the emergency fund being greater and perhaps having a greater ability to float non-emergency type issues. .and so what you call it might be an argument about semantics rather than recognizing that there can be ways in which some portions of the emergency fund might be treated more strictly than other portions, especially if such emergency fund gets built up to be fairly robust in size relative to expenses (or expected expenses or even how much extra might be needed to keep in the emergency fund for unexpected happenings, which the punchline, like you said Su-asa is not to get to any kind of point in which you run out of emergency funds and have to dip into your BTC investment at a time that is anything other than your own choosing. .which depletion of your emergency fund would not be a good place to be... in part because it seems to be largely preventable.

Quote from: Mate2237 on January 04, 2024, 09:43:17 PM

Quote from: Su-asa on January 04, 2024, 08:40:11 PM

Anybody that uses funds for emergencies to invest in Bitcoin is not a wise investor because problems can come at anytime when he/she will need some money that he will use to settle down some things that needs to be settled..
Having an emergency funds might make an investor to hold more longer than he or she planned to hold. Reasons are because when you are saving and still accumulating Bitcoin and on the other hand you have funds for emergencies, then what will the person want to sell his coins for? Nothing,,, unless they will want to use some of the profits to complete a project and other things that can be bring more money to them during the week or month.

There are some people who works in a company that don't pay workers salaries on time (delays payments) and those people if they are invest in Bitcoin and they are not saving some funds for emergencies and just saving for nothing, by the time month end and there is no payment they will want to sell some coins and use the money to support them self untill payment is made.

I have not seen anyone keeping funds for emergency.

Even if people are not accustomed to keeping an emergency fund, if they start to invest, there is a higher need to have an emergency fund in order that you do not have to sell your investment at a time that is anything other than your own choosing. Anyone who invests and does not establish an emergency fund is gambling with his investment, and yeah there could be some folks who have developed some ways of cushioning themselves with various assets that they would sell first, so they might not call their funds or their assets to be part of an emergency fund, even if some funds might be serving that purpose, if they were to be the thing that is sold first, and anyone investing in bitcoin should not be putting himself into a position in which he has to sell his bitcoin first or at any point that is not of his own choosing, otherwise he is treating his bitcoin as part of his emergency fund, which is a plan that is likely to not have very good success .. it is a kind of gambling to treat your bitcoin as your emergency fund.

Quote from: Mate2237 on January 04, 2024, 09:43:17 PM

There is no special emergency funds in anywhere but the funds came out when the emergency arise. Nobody pray for bad omen or danger ahead, but emergency is unavoidable, whether we like it or not we must encountered it from one way to another and emergency funds also comes unprepared. And at that time of the emergency, no responsible person would use that funds to invest in Bitcoin then the person does not value the sick person life. Bitcoin is not something we invest and reap within a second or hours. But a long term investment.

There are all kinds of emergencies.. not just sick persons.... but you raise a point in which there coudl be some kinds of cases in which it might be prudent to have an emergency fund that is larger than usual.. maybe more than 3-6 months but and might have some other funds that are for catastrophic situations.. and if you do no thave funds in other place, then your bitcoin would be serving that purpose.. which may or may not be a good idea and may or not be something in which you could attempt to plan for how many funds you hold in various places and what would be the order in which those cushion funds would be used for any emergency that was ongoing, persistent and of the magnitude that is draining your regular and then seemingly insufficient 3-6 months emergency fund.

Quote from: Mate2237 on January 04, 2024, 09:43:17 PM

As I said nobody saves money for accident, law case and others but it is when the matters arise then money would come out from it hidden places to settle the problem.

You are assuming too much Mate2237.. people do have funds for emergencies, and sometimes it could take a long time to build up such funds, and sure some of that could be in bitcoin, but it could also be in other assets, so the longer and longer that you are in bitcoin and thinking about these kinds of things, the more likely you could be building up your emergency fund to be more and more robust.. .and some of the robustness can be planned in advanced, but some of the robustness might well be a thing that is built as you go.. ..

So, like the example that I already gave above, if a person knows that his regular expenses are usually around $500 per month, and his income is $300 to $1,200 but usually around $700, there still could be ways to attempt to cut expenses down and/or to build up income.. and so maybe once the emergency fund gets to 6 months, he might decide to build it up to 12 months, and perhaps some of the funds would be considered working funds.. so there could be various places to put the emergency fund and to build its size at the same time. I would not presume an emergency fund to be futile, merely because you don't do it or no one you know does it, and I some people do decide to keep some forms of money in cash even though it is not working capital, partly because the want to make sure that they have enough of an emergency fund.

Sure there are some cultures in which the money tends to debase so fast that it does not make a lot of sense to hold that money in cash, so there could be some ways that some of the emergency fund is held in non-yielding cash, and then there could be some other cash that might take a bit longer to get to but it is earning some kind of interest so that it holds its value.. and so there can be questions of trade-offs between liquidity and holding value.. .especially the larger it is, then if you are holding a whole year's worth of cash and it is losing value at 2-5% per year, you might believe it is not that big of a deal to keep adding value to it, but if it is losing value fastr than that then you may want to be able to earn some kind of interest on it.