Quote from: Taskford on January 04, 2024, 11:08:20 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 03, 2024, 10:30:51 PM

Quote from: Justbillywitt on January 03, 2024, 10:12:31 PM

Quote from: jossiel on January 03, 2024, 09:20:45 PM

Quote from: LDL on January 03, 2024, 02:58:01 PM

I agree with you but there is nothing to do when the market suddenly crashes after you invest. Today suddenly the market has crashed so much that after investing I suddenly entered the market and saw a big fall in this case I did not get enough opportunity to do market analysis. Those who want to invest right now can definitely invest in this DIP market and wait for the next Bullrun.

Market now temporarily Crashed, Do Your Own Research (DYOR)

Yup, with these crashes all of a sudden. The market is still giving them opportunity to buy and hold. Because when the price is quite high, all they do is complain that they can't buy it anymore as it is already expensive. But they can still buy even with that price but the quantity of Bitcoin they'll able to get is lesser.

So, with the market crash. Everyone is saying that it is about the latest ugly news about someone's speculation that ETF won't do shit on this market and SEC won't give a go.

Whoever made that news sees that people are still too emotional when some unexpected news like that comes out.

Even why the price has dropped to this level some people won't still buy, they will be waiting to see if the price will fall more than this.
Some people are expert in making some bad news so that there will be panic in the market and people will start selling off, why they will be buying. Only newbies won't understand this tricks. But as an old investor who understands the game that's being played here, it's to buy while others are selling. Moreover Bitcoin will be here and will keep performing with or without the SEC giving it a go. The most important thing is to benefit from this dip by accumulating more.

You speak like an OG.. but your registration is ONLY since the beginning of October.. .. so when did you start accumulating bitcoin?.. How are you planning to play this cycle? What is your plan? What is your BTC holdings going to look like in 4-6 years? I know it can be difficult to project out that far, but at least many of us can attempt to project out for a year, and part of how we project might also be based on what we did in the past .. the last year, the last few years, and then what is our current situation.. how aggressive are we able to be in terms of our BTC accumulation, and do we even have discretionary income and how is that going to change into the future. which is partly based on the past, present and then our projections of how we believe the future might play out.

That means he's not new on cryptocurrency and maybe he's away in this forum for long time then just recently discover this good place then decide to stay here. Since see a lot of cryptocurrency dude outside of this forum participating on trading and any crypto related activities but when I asked them if they are familiar with this forum the say no. Its surprising but we know there's a lot of them exist.

You should probably use the word bitcoin somewhere in your discussion, and if you are suggesting that a lot of people are confused and distracted by ideas of "crypto" there are better ways of saying that and making sure that you use the word bitcoin in your discussion, especially since this thread is about bitcoin.. and sure from time to time, we might contrast shitcoins with bitcoin or to suggest to stay away from shitcoins and tradings, but we still need to put our words in some kind of a proper context and actually use the word bitcoin so that people are better able to know what we are talking about.

Quote from: Taskford on January 04, 2024, 11:08:20 AM

Its really difficult to project since we don't know the possible outcome since the only thing we do is to speculate base on the events to come but atleast we try to take our participant to look on what will happen in future. Also I guess the aggression to accumulate will always depend on the budget of each people since they might became more aggressive when there's a fund to spend.

Whether we are aggressive or not, I presume that you are saying that we are doing this kind of investing in regards to bitcoin, so if you don't use the word bitcoin, it can get confusing regarding what you are talking about..

Quote from: Taskford on January 04, 2024, 11:08:20 AM

But what good thing is we have good insights about what might happen in future and its up to the people now on how they play their role also how they can accumulate base on their allocated budget for investment.

Sure it is important to tailorize our investment into bitcoin in accordance with our own particular circumstances, and surely we cannot really know what is going to happen in the future, so we can size our investment into bitcoin in accordance with how much we might consider is a reasonable amount, and that might not even mean that we need to be very aggressive, especially if we are just getting started, so we might feel that we know even less than someone who has been studying the bitcoin space for a while, so in that context, we might have a budget in which we could invest $100 per week into bitcoin, but instead we choose to start out with $10 or maybe $50 per week into bitcoin, while we are studying it and figuring out at what point we might be willing to move our amount up to something like $100 per week, if we might have had already decided that $100 per week might be within our possible budget.

Quote from: 2Pizza410000BTC on January 04, 2024, 11:43:35 AM

Quote from: G_Besar on January 03, 2024, 11:53:35 PM

Quote from: Obim34 on January 03, 2024, 10:46:52 PM

I do not think we are saying something different, I never made mention about investing in any of those shitcoin it was a clear response to the user so no worries about spreading the ideas oof investing in them.
Bitcoin has dominated the market not because it was just the first cryptocurrencies but due to.its potential beyond every other cryptocurrency, with all this Bitcoin is worth investing.

Bitcoin is not only worth investing in, but it is also worth continuing to keep and collect as a valuable asset now that Bitcoin has grown satisfactorily for more than ten years. So there is no need to bother ourselves with thinking about more other coins at this time, although some people can still get temporary profits through other coins in the short term or during improving market conditions.

Now those who continue to apply the DCA strategy and do Buy the DIP, and HODL have felt the benefits quite clearly because Bitcoin has exceeded the price of $45K even though it has now returned to $42K with slow movement. But I am also quite sure that the price movement to $45K is still quite open for Bitcoin because this year is still a pretty good year for Bitcoin and its holders.

I am investing Bitcoin using DCA method. I am investing $48+ per week with DCA method because my main goal is to grow bitcoin investment. I currently have $522 worth of bitcoins in my investment portfolio. When the Bitcoin market crosses $45000 my portfolio invested in the DCA method increases significantly. Currently at $42000 bitcoin my bitcoin investment portfolio is down a bit. But I'm not worried about it at all because I'm investing in Bitcoin for the long haul. I did not invest to trade. I want to invest like this till the new ATH of Bitcoin is made. I will be able to invest in Bitcoin from many dips this week. Because the Bitcoin market has gone down a lot.

If you are investing until the next ATH and you have ONLY accumulated $522 based on $48+ per week, then you are not investing "for the long haul", as you mentioned. On the other hand, if you invest at $48+ per week for the next 4-10 years or more, then maybe somewhere down the line your claim of investing "for the long haul" might have some truth to it.. Otherwise, not even your words are matching up with long term intentions rather than just seeming to want to ride this possible short-to-medium term wave.

Quote from: Gallar on January 04, 2024, 03:33:37 PM

Quote from: FinePoine0 on January 04, 2024, 03:45:33 AM

Quote from: G_Besar on January 03, 2024, 11:53:35 PM

Quote from: Obim34 on January 03, 2024, 10:46:52 PM

~Snip

Now those who continue to apply the DCA strategy and do Buy the DIP, and HODL have felt the benefits quite clearly because Bitcoin has exceeded the price of $45K even though it has now returned to $42K with slow movement. But I am also quite sure that the price movement to $45K is still quite open for Bitcoin because this year is still a pretty good year for Bitcoin and its holders.

If I invest for the long term I will never care about the price of Bitcoin. That's why don't worry I am investing by following DCA method regularly, since it will be a long term investment so it will not depend on where the market will go. Only I will make sure that I continue my investment in DCA method. If I think about the benefits then surely greed will work inside me, and because of greed I may decide to sell my bitcoins, but the decision to sell bitcoins will be wrong. So I will never accept such a plan.
I will invest my bitcoin for long term and that is in DCA method.

I agree with you, friend. A bitcoin investor who truly invests in the long term and uses the DCA technique in his purchases, does not need to think about the current market price of bitcoin. Because if you think deeper, when bitcoin investors do DCA, it seems as if they are continuing towards a predetermined goal. Therefore, to achieve this goal successfully, it means that bitcoin investors (who carry out DCA) must not stop or be influenced by anything in the process of their journey. Because if a bitcoin investor stops or is affected by it, he will definitely fail and have to start again from zero on his journey (DCA).
And the influence I mean here is the bitcoin market price which is currently experiencing an increase.

But to be honest, fighting this influence is not easy. Because I have the assumption that most bitcoin investors basically have the goal of seeking profits as quickly as possible. Meaning, "when there is an opportunity to make a profit, why delay or pass it up?" Therefore, when the bullish market ends/subsides, usually the price of bitcoin always experiences a significant price decline. Well, this is bound to happen because many Bitcoin investors are selling their assets. That's why the price of bitcoin has decreased.
Therefore, I assume many bitcoin investors tend to take profits when the opportunity arises.

You are looking at the wrong data.

Sure newbies get in and out but so fucking what.

Longer term bitcoiners are not selling at these prices...and most of the coins are not moving. Seems that the pressures are generally up even if you fear various down periods or you fear that the BTC price is not going up fast enough or in enough of a direct line for you.

Quote from: Gallar on January 04, 2024, 03:33:37 PM

However, bitcoin investors who carry out DCA with the correct essence. I am sure, they will not be affected by the market value of bitcoin (up or down). Because they already had a strong goal from the start. So that when they are carrying out the DCA process, they will not be deterred. And maybe you are one example, friend.

Sure DCA is a strong technique to build resilience, but even folks who are DCA'ing can get scared out f their coins.. .. but yeah generally speaking we have a lot of UP, since mid-October from $26k/$27k until $45/$46k and without too many corrections.. but does not even mean that corrections won't happen, and the mere fact that selling starts to take place, that can sometimes be pushed by those trying to get the price to go down, and it is not always clear if they will be successful or if buy pressure has sufficiently kept up with the UPward price movement.

We cannot necessarily know short term, which should be part of the reason to either HODL 4-10 years or more.. or perhaps to accumulate for 4-10 years or more and then decide after accumulating for 4-10 years or more what you are going to do.. because you could be accumulating for 4-10 years or more and then after 10 years or more years, then start your holding period at that time for another 4-10 years or more...

How much you need to accumulate depends on how new you are to investing, and if you are brand new to investing, you probably would not have good chances of getting to fuck you status in 10-15 years, even if you had been aggressively investing the whole time and even though surely it could be possible, but you are trying to get to entry level fuck you status, you likely would need to get to 20-30 years worth of income built up in your investment, so maybe even if you were aggressively investing into bitcoin, you maybe could get to 1 to 2 years of investment into bitcoin in 3-5 years, if you were investing 30% or so of your income, but that may well be too much for many folks (especially newbies) to be able to put togethert a system in which they are able to be that level of aggressive without over doing it..

Quote from: Frankolala on January 04, 2024, 07:38:44 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 03, 2024, 09:39:03 PM

I don't disagree with any of your points, yet the large and the small investors are dealing with the same factors, and the large investor likely has more disposable income, more abilities to draw from other assets and more abilities to use debt and other financial instruments to his advantage. The larger investor also may not even need an emergency fund because he can draw from other assets that are de facto serving as an emergency fund, even if he might not have had designated them in such a way.

The poor investor has to likely be smarter and more resourceful to get ahead and to make progress and to take time to get his capital, assets, disposable income and even his credit worthiness up to higher levels, but the poor investor is not at any inherent disadvantage so long as he minds his position size in order to not go above his discretionary income and the projection of his discretionary income in terms of also having an emergency fund.

So perhaps a diligent poor investor can catch up to a sloppy rich investor because the rich investor might not be as motivated and may well take his richness for granted, and the poor investor might be struggling at every turn to make gains, to use his resources wisely and to not unduly put his resources at risk.

Yeah, a lot of poor investors devolve into gambling and risk taking because they may well believe that they either have to catch up to the rich investor or they believe that they can employ the same kinds of proportionalities as the rich investor, when the poor investor should be tailoring his investment style to his own situation, even if it could take him 5, 10 or 20 years to catch up to the rich investor, and the poor investor may well never catch up to the smart rich investor, but he will have good chances of catching up to the sloppy, the reckless and the negligent rich investor... but the poor investor still should be keeping in mind that he is not competing against the rich investor, but instead should be putting systems into place that might even take 5, 10 or 20 years before they really show substantial and/or meaningful progress and payouts.. and sometimes the poor investor might not have enough time in life to be able to really grow and compound his wealth.. there is some luck and even some life circumstances that may well contribute towards even more obstacles.. so each person should be working within his own framework to figure out what is amongst the better of paths for him to employ.

I like the way that you have differentiate investors who are committed to achieving their bitcoin target using the poor and the rich as an example. It is true that bitcoin investment has given opportunity to the committed poor man that is doing everything possible to be consistent with his regular DCA accumulation to be able to get to 75% portfolio of a committed and consistent rich guy who has the money down for him to invest without struggling to make preparations for the necessary funds to survive his long term bitcoin goal. I wouldn't say that the poor man in this shoes buying regularly is somehow competing with the rich guy because they might be in different location but both of them have the same goal and decided to invest in bitcoin to achieve a target. What I see is that the poor investor believes in sacrificing for the future to turn his life around rather than eating the little that he can invest.

We cannot completely generalize, but there are cases in which poor people pass up rich people because they are more motivated, and the rich will sometimes take their richness for granted, so they end up not being as smart as the poor man who becomes good with building his capital. Sure the cards might be stacked against the poor person, but sometimes they are able to catch up and to get ahead based on persistence and being strategic with his capital.

Sure sometimes the world is so unfair that the poor person will not be able to catch up to the rich who might even employ inferior techniques because there are a lot of advantages with starting out rich. and some of it is financial and other parts would be having access to social capital and other advantages, but the poor person would just need to try to do his best under the circumstances, and sometimes the poor will resort to crime or to shitcoins because they consider the regular system to be too stacked against them, and none of us can make those kinds of decisions for others, even though surely something like bitcoin does offer some opportunities for traditional poor folks to be able to catch up to the rich who are not giving enough credit to bitcoin and not accumulating or maintaining a stash of bitcoin.

Quote from: Frankolala on January 04, 2024, 07:38:44 PM

However, it is clear that a rich investor who is not that serious to invest aggressively but invest some amount without being consistent will likely be behind the poor committed investor because his bitcoin portfolio size will not be up to the the poor investor in 20yrs time like you stated and before you know it due to the compound profit in the poor investor bitcoin, he might even get almost as rich as the inconsistent rich investor. This is the power that the longer your bitcoin investment and portfolio size is the better opportunity of you have to be successful and even get richer than those rich people who didn't invest in bitcoin.

We are quite likely going through the largest wealth transfer in history, so there are going to be some who are on the receiving side and others on the losing side, and even though bitcoin is likely going to increase the size of the pie, the ones who enter into bitcoin earlier are likely going to be unfairly advantaged over those who enter later, yet everyone will likely still prosper from the overall system, even though some will prosper more than others.

So I personally imagine that those who know about bitcoin have to also act upon their knowledge, and so those who know about bitcoin and are acting somewhat aggressive in their BTC accumulation, then they are likely going to get rewarded for that... and sure, if you are already part of the status quo rich, you may well not need to act as aggressively as compared to a poor person, but we even have status quo rich people like michael saylor (as @Jaycoinz also mentioned) who are engaging in pretty damned aggressive behaviors in regards to his own personal accumulation (and his company's accumulation) of bitcoin, so that does drive the price up for the poor people to be able to get BTC at cheaper prices and to be able to front run the other status quo rich folks, institutions and governments.. .. but yeah, even a brand new bitcoiner, cannot go back in time and he has to decide how aggressive he wants to be right now. and likely he would be better off to act sooner rather than later to begin his bitcoin accumulation journey because it can take a while to stack sats... and even could take longer if you wait an the BTC price ends up going up rather than down or sideways.

Quote from: Jaycoinz on January 04, 2024, 10:01:59 PM

Quote from: Frankolala on January 04, 2024, 07:38:44 PM

However, it is clear that a rich investor who is not that serious to invest aggressively but invest some amount without being consistent will likely be behind the poor committed investor because his bitcoin portfolio size will not be up to the the poor investor in 20yrs time like you stated and before you know it due to the compound profit in the poor investor bitcoin, he might even get almost as rich as the inconsistent rich investor. This is the power that the longer your bitcoin investment and portfolio size is the better opportunity of you have to be successful and even get richer than those rich people who didn't invest in bitcoin.

That's a cool way to put it, but I think I will narrow this down to the fact of seriousness or commitment because some poor folks that lack these virtue can also fail to hold, being poor isn't actually a motive for them to hold for long and being rich doesn't make you reluctant to hold for long, but I totally understand your point though but Micheal saylor is one rich fuck that have continued buying and stacking Bitcoin despite the fact that he has lots of money and Bitcoin also. Although like JJG was implying the order reluctancy tend to be more on rich fellows but a share portion of these poor folks too are lazy when they lack the sight to see a prosperous future in keeping or continually buying and holding Bitcoin.

Yep there is variations of level of aggressiveness, persistence and even smart applications within the rich and within the poor too... but the point still stands that there are going to be a lot of variety of people, and some of them are going to advantage more than others in terms of our likely ongoing greatest wealth transfer in history, and the level of their advantage will likely come from both their knowledge of BTC, but also their acting upon such knowledge, with probably the acting part to be the most important aspect. It is not going to do as much good to just watch bitcoin from the sidelines without actually investing into it... but hey people can do what they like, and mostly what people still are doing is watching from the sidelines, even when they claim to know about dee cornz. But those of us who are active in this thread are likely not those who are watching from the sidelines, and there are a good number of us who are acting to stack sats and/or to maintain our stacks if we had already been stacking a decently enough long time.

Quote from: Justbillywitt on January 04, 2024, 10:54:27 PM

Quote from: Frankolala on January 04, 2024, 07:38:44 PM

[edited out]

There is also a possibility that the rich investor who has the money to invest at once and don't bother investing for the next 20 years can still has more Bitcoin in his portfolio than the poor investor who is invest 20 dollars every week. If a rich investor spend $500k and buy Bitcoin at once, someone buying at $20 every week for 20 years won't have same holding as that of the Rich man. Yes consistency in accumulating is good if you have the time and money. Also buying at once and don't bother buying again is also good. What matters is the size of Bitcoin you bought at once and your holding duration and the target you want to achieve.

Let's flesh this out a wee bit moar better, so that the person investing over 20 years is also investing $500k or even investing $1million, he likely is not going to catch up to the person who invested $500k right now.

So think about it. Someone has $500k and buys right around 11.5 BTC (at $43,500 per BTC).

A person who invests $500 per week would invest right around $25,000 per year, $250k in 10 years and $500k in 20 years.

Even if we double that to $1k per week, which would be $50k per year, $500k in 10 years and $1 million in 20 years.

Even though we don't know for sure, I doubt that the DCA person at either $500 per week or $1k per week is going to accumulate as much BTC as the person who invested $500k today at $43,500... and we are not going to know for 20 years, but that would be my speculation in regards to the comparison. Of course, the $1k per week person would have better chances than the $500 per week person, but I still have my doubts about their ability to catch the lump sum investor.

And, yes, we mentioned that part of the dilemma remains that the person who is DCA'ing cannot come up with $500k now or even $1million, but over 20 years, he may well be able to invest either of those amounts without even close to as much pressure.

By the way, I am not even suggesting that it would even be any kind of goal to get richer than various rich people that you know, because it does not really even matter that much if someone either stays rich while you struggle to catch up, but I would still consider the main point is to be figuring out ways to make your life and your options better based on your own circumstances as they are now and how you might work on your own conditions to be in the future.