Quote from: hugeblack on Today at 08:20:44 AM

Quote from: BenCodie on Today at 07:03:39 AM

How can we prove that Bitcoin purchased through a Spot ETF, thus resulting in the creation of a "trust unit", reflects the purchase of real Bitcoin?

The disadvantage of ETFs is that it is easy for whales to empty the price pumps so that we will not see a crazy increase like we did in 2017.

Can you elaborate on how it will now be easier, for my own clarity and for the wider audience? I know what you mean based on my reading though what is unclear is a practical example, or a "from start to finish" look, from the start of the increase and the difference when the selling begins/bear begins.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 07:30:10 AM

the foolish game of asking "what will happen to price if"..
.. is that if everyone asks it and comes to same assumption. they then pre-plan their trades to get ahead of the "what will" thus then affecting the "what will" to then become the opposite

using historic events pattern of similar hype to estimate future pattern, is only as good as the limited users that recognise/plan for the pattern
if everyone knows it.. it wont occur because everyone is trading against it

EG
if everyone expects the price to get to say $70k this week
what actually happens with this expectation is. less people actually buy now and instead start getting into a selling position from $50k plus, meaning that less buyers and more sellers means it then never gets to $70k

this is why if bitcoins max premium for ATH estimate for 2024 is $140k. many influencers shout $300k-$500k to keep buyers interested in buying upto $140k so that influencers can sell upto $140k
otherwise if everyone shouted $140k max. people slowdown buying at $100k+ and it never reaches $140k

I'm sorry that you wasted so much time on your post. My topic has nothing to do with price. It has more to do with liquidity and the change in one of Bitcoin's most valuable fundamentals - limited supply - and how this will be effected by ETPs (as well as, how liquidity in the cryptocurrency market will be effected by ETPs)

Quote from: Blitzboy on Today at 08:37:47 AM

Asking if Bitcoin's value is affected is like asking if waves affect the ocean. They make a splash, but the ocean's strength is its size. Bitcoin's value comes from its decentralization and community trust, not ETFs. ETFs are little boats surfing the Bitcoin wave.

Yes this seems to be misunderstood and I changed "markets" to "market liquidity" as this was specifically what I was referring to rather than price.

Quote from: Blitzboy on Today at 08:37:47 AM

We're like pioneers attempting to figure out the rules. I support transparency. Building ETFs without Bitcoin backing is like building castles in the air. However, even if these ETFs cant prove their Bitcoin holdings, their existence shows Bitcoin's gaining credibility in mainstream finance.

....

ETFs are a milestone, but they dont prove Bitcoin's strength. They're one of several ways to spread Bitcoin. Like adding additional taste to a rich dish, its interesting but not necessary. Bitcoin's charm is its independence.

I'm on the same page as you with these comments, thank you for your post

Quote from: Rruchi man on Today at 07:36:17 AM

Quote from: BenCodie on Today at 07:03:39 AM

How will ETFs effect the economics of Bitcoin and existing Bitcoin markets?

There are many investors who knew about bitcoins, but did not want to invest through exchanges, this gives them an opportunity by investing in exchange-traded funds. Also, on the market, with the approval of these Spot bitcoin ETFs, it will expose bitcoins more to people who like investing in digital assets. They may not invest immediately but they will closely be observing the market before joining later.

This is true but the obvious part of the ETP approval. I think we're all aware of this already.

Quote from: Cvetik56 on Today at 07:48:48 AM

Quote from: Rruchi man on Today at 07:36:17 AM

Quote from: BenCodie on Today at 07:03:39 AM

How will ETFs effect the economics of Bitcoin and existing Bitcoin markets?

There are many investors who knew about bitcoins, but did not want to invest through exchanges, this gives them an opportunity by investing in exchange-traded funds. Also, on the market, with the approval of these Spot bitcoin ETFs, it will expose bitcoins more to people who like investing in digital assets. They may not invest immediately but they will closely be observing the market before joining later.

And they won't hold the actual BTC, it will lie in the BlackRock pockets, as I understand it. I wonder how it will affect the market, I suppose we just need to wait.

This is the new golden question mark in this next cycle it seems...