Quote from: legiteum on Today at 04:11:58 PM

Quote from: DooMAD on Today at 08:32:18 AM

You're claiming you don't see any value in Bitcoin and it doesn't solve any real world problems.

I never claimed either of those things.

Then I'm not sure in what context you meant:

Quote from: legiteum on January 25, 2024, 04:18:34 PM

it's really only useful as a meme investment instrument with no inherent value beyond its own name

That sounds an awful lot like you saying it's not useful and it doesn't have value. Perhaps you could clarify?

Quote from: legiteum on Today at 04:11:58 PM

I did claim--and I stand by this--that the ETF and the resultant interest by consumers, and therefore the resultant interest by institutional investors, could affect the price, and I made an argument here that the result could be downward pressure on the price for the reasons I listed.

As long as we're drawing a clear distinction between "price" and "value", then that's fine. But again, you did say "value" in the quoted text above. Only speculators see price and value as the same thing.

Quote from: legiteum on Today at 04:11:58 PM

most consumers do not want to hide their life savings under a mattress, or in their iPhone. They want an institutional account that is protected based on their personal identity. Hence most average consumer investors in Bitcoin and other cryptos don't pay attention to the "decentralized" mythos of Bitcoin at all and instead just see it as a meme to invest in.

If the "OG" Bitcoin community here wants to kick these people out, then do that--but guess what will happen to the price of Bitcoin et. al. when all of those consumers are kicked out?

People are absolutely free to do that, but they are somewhat missing both the point and the protections that were built into the design of the protocol. I won't pretend that isn't a serious issue. But I would suggest that most of them are speculators and, as such, they care far more about the price than I do. If them using it in a way it wasn't designed to be used results in some event that rattles confidence the market and the price drops, so be it. I'm not particularly worried about that, personally. That still doesn't have any impact on what I recognise to be the real "value" here.

I don't think anyone here wants to "kick them out", but I do sincerely hope that some of them reconsider their choices before something happens to their chosen custodian and they lose everything. It's inevitable that another big exchange or webwallet is going to suffer a breach before long. And it'll keep happening while people continue placing trust in them. That's just how it is. All I can do is offer warnings and encourage personal responsibility. Granted, that carries its own risks too, but it's still widely considered to be safer than trusting total strangers you've never met.

Quote from: legiteum on Today at 04:11:58 PM

As for inflation, both USD and BTC are investment instruments, as is gold, land, bonds, soybean futures and so on. To say that your new investment instrument "solves" inflation is circular reasoning: you are essentially promising the price of Bitcoin will go up in value compared to the value of USD, which is a promise nobody can make.

I make no promises on how the market will behave. It's going to do what it does with or without my comments. Trying to merely predict what the market does is often a fool's errand, let alone making promises about it. But I'm quite confident I'm not wrong to state, unequivocally, that Bitcoin won't change its rules regarding monetary supply and that's an incredibly desirable property in a climate where people are becoming tired of quantitative easing and helicopter money. Even if you don't want to accept it as a "solution" to what's generally happening in fiat, you can't deny some people see value in that.

Quote from: legiteum on Today at 04:11:58 PM

As for "censorship", what you are actually talking about here is allowing citizens to engage in illegal activity. I am quite sympathetic to those living under terrible governments who need protection from corruption, and I'd wish them every tool at their disposal to save themselves. But if you are saying it's really "terrible" that American citizens can't trade with Russia right now, suffice it to say that the majority of our elected representatives don't agree with you right now, and the solution is to go through the democratic process, not go against your own government.

And I hope your government remains as democratic as it purports to be. But things change. Political ideologies shift. Governments can become more authoritarian over time. Sometimes an entire populace can be duped into voting against their own self interests and they don't even realise until it's too late. Coups happen. Dictators rise. There are so many times in history when incredibly vile and repugnant people have gained positions of influence or control and committed unspeakable acts. So let's be clear that "illegal" doesn't always equal "immoral".