Quote from: franky1 on Today at 04:15:30 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:50:51 AM

Everyone likely benefits from having a more fair monetary system, even if some people might not be able to afford to buy bitcoin in the beginning or to save in it... but the more and more that bitcoin might start to infiltrate all areas of life, then perhaps even really poor people in the $1 per day category might also be using bitcoin on second or third layers and maybe not even knowing it.

users cant buy small amounts of coin on an exchange and have it transfered TO A KEY the user owns.. whether on bitcoin or on subnetwork

at best they will get balance in a CEX or where the CEX shifts CEX subnetwork balance to a partner where the partner then holds the balance as inbound balance to the user, but the user still does not have confirmed utxo control of the btc..

I am not going to proclaim that I know all of the solutions for these matters or even if everyone will be able to hold their own UTXOs especially in the short term where someone might be buying bitcoin in very small quantities, such as less than $10 per month or something like that. There may be solutions in the future where there might be more and more systems of shared UTXOs..

Right now, I personally am not suggesting anyone with small balances of less than $500 to be sending to private wallets, and so my current suggestion for poor people is to accumulate their BTC in some third party like an exchange, and then withdraw some time after reaching $500 to $1k, and yeah in the end, people have to figure out their own balancing of matters in this regard, and surely historically there have been a lot of people who had relatively small UTXOs who might be suffering during these kinds of higher fee times.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 04:15:30 AM

in short. you saying dont fix bitcoin exploits, dont make fee's reasonable just let people buy middlemen balance (IOU)

I don't claim to know all possible fixes, and yeah, IOUs might be temporary solutions for poor people, whether it is holding coins on CEXs or maybe having various kinds of custodial lightning wallets.. and so yeah, they do not own the UTXOs until maybe some later date that it might become feasible and economical for them to do so.. Do you have some kind of proposed solution that might reach consensus, because it likely does not do a whole hell of a lot of good to fantasize about various changes that might be made, if hardly anyone agrees to build some kind of a mechanism that might later build towards getting consensus... if you are suggesting some kind of hard fork.. .and yeah, softforks might be easier, but you still might need to convince the running of such software.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 04:15:30 AM

remember bitcoin does not leave the bitcoin network. so please stop wording things to suggest people are using bitcoin on other systems remember 'not your key not your coin'

There are second and third layers that sometimes are practical, and yeah some of those are less connected to bitcoin than others, and yeah on chain is real bitcoin, but still there are lighting channels that are pretty damned close to real bitcoin, and I am not really too excited to want to argue with you about these terminology matters and even your various disagreements with segwit and lightning network.. including I believe that they are waste of time discussion pursuits if you are trying to act as if they are failures or that they should not exist, when in fact they do exist and people use bitcoin in these various kinds of ways that are less assured that they are actually using actual bitcoin especially when it comes to third parties, but I am not going to agree to your nutjob theories in regards to lightning networks ability to create more bitcoin because I doubt that is very accurate, even though you are continuously making some variation of those kinds of arguments.