Quote from: paxmao on Today at 01:20:21 AM

Quote from: LTU_btc on February 03, 2024, 11:52:47 PM

Quote from: DaRude on February 03, 2024, 06:37:21 PM

Your attempt to poke holes and question Il-76 tragedy is just silly. What is the typical ratio of enforcement agents to prisoners on the transport planes? Russians are just timing this to present a full investigation and reveal evidence to courts/UN at maximum publicity when the timing suits them the best. Why on earth would Russia reveal their cards now so And likUkraine can prepare defense and come up with new version of the events? Having tangible proof that American supplied military hardware was used on Russian territory removes US's plausible deniability defense, and forces them to make a choice. Either hard stop on using missiles on Russian territory or de jure US becomes part of the conflict, neither is a good options, of course US can continues to ignore this, but that would set an even worst precedent where now Iran/Russia/others would be able to directly provide missiles to proxies for attack on US/EU assets. Total diplomacy fail, on one hand holding Iran responsible for their drones used by others, while on another attempting to distance itself and claim US is not responsible that their weapons are used inside Russia Huh

Edit: In fact it almost seems too perfect of a case for Russia. American missiles take down a plane full of Ukrainian POWs inside Russia, this will be for the books. What do you think this does for F16 and Taurus delivery timelines?

So, you say that 3 guards for 65 POW's is normal number. C'mon, such number of guards are used to transfer random prisoners from court to prison on road convoy. For this operation I guess that at least double digit of security guards would be used.
Yeah, Russia don't show any proofs just because that Ukrainian wouldn't come with their versionand excuse. If Russia would have undeniable proof, no excuses would help.
And like it would first plane in territory of Russia shot down by Ukraine. And Ukrainians doesn't even hide that they're using Patriot for it, where is the issue? Hiting military targets in territory of Russia is defense, if they would start hitting civilian objects, it would be different question already. And BTW, how you already know that it was American Patriot. Don't forget that Ukraine have Patriot batteries supplied by Germany.

It is so funny that this guy considers like Ukraine is wrong to hit Ruzzian targets. This is a war, Ruzzia is targeting any short of not just military targets but also infrastructure and sometimes clearly and evident just simple civilian targets, but somehow they believe that retaliating is wrong.

Speaking of which... Where is Gerasimov? There seem to be more and more people asking this question. Any clue in your troll farm da?

They were going to be exchanged the next day with their names on the list, i don't expect them to qualify as a high risk for escape. If they're loaded and unloaded with more guards, and shackled during the flight why would you need more? How many agent escort prisoners inside the plane in the west? Cars might get ambushed but planes?

You seem to misunderstand the targeted audience here. I'm pretty sure we're already beyond a point where Russia wants, needs or even can prove anything to Ukraine. The standard operations in such cases is first to deny, and then claim of false flag operation.

I believe all other attacks inside Russia were with "Ukrainian" missiles, old soviet stuff that they had in stock before the 2022. All new weapons are provided on a condition that they won't be used inside Russia. If you know of a patriot missiles used inside of Russia (outside of Crimea which west doesn't consider Russian) post it here i'd love to read about it. You can think that it's defense all you want, but the reality is Ukraine is restricted because it was never meant to win, thought this was already clear to everyone, did you really not know this?

This is back from May 25, 2023 when to get PR boost, Ukraine used Humvees to cross into Russia, it was a big deal, as you can see they covered it up by claiming it wasn't Ukrainians there. And we haven't heard of any Humvees on Russian soil since then.

Quote from: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-shouldnt-use-us-arms-inside-russia-us-general-says-2023-05-25/

"I can't say with definitive accuracy right this minute to you whether that - and I saw the same video - whether that's U.S. supplied equipment or not, what was the nature of the attack, who did what to whom," Milley told a press conference at the Pentagon.
"I can't say that with definitiveness right this minute, but I can say that we have asked the Ukrainians not to use U.S.-supplied equipment for direct attacks into Russia."

Footage of some destroyed vehicles released by the Russian defense ministry showed U.S.-made military hardware such as Humvee military trucks. Reuters was able to confirm the location of damaged vehicles and surrounding details shown in the video, though could not verify the date it was filmed.
Ukraine's government denied any role in the Belgorod raid, which has been claimed by two anti-Kremlin armed groups made up of Russian nationals, some of whom are far-right figures.

Ukraine has said in the past that it will not use longer-range weapons pledged by the United States to hit Russian territory and will only target Russian units on occupied Ukrainian territory.
Milley said restrictions on U.S. support to Ukraine following Russia's February 2022 invasion was aimed at ensuring Kyiv's self-defense against Russian forces inside Ukraine.
"Why is that? Because we don't want - this is a Ukrainian war. It is not a war between the United States and Russia. It's not a war between NATO and Russia," Milley said.

And this is exactly why Russia is doing what it's doing, to undermine the support, and killed POWs will brings extra publicity, i fully expect them to post most graphic images, pictures of shrapnel, flight path etc... during UN hearings to try to get on the front pages of the news, all in due time. I'm sure Ukrainians don't care, but the rest of the world would rather not see Russia provide anti-ship missiles to anti-western groups and then use use ignorance for defense. As far as which exact country the delivery happened through, is as important as whether Russian anti-ship missiles would be exported directly or through Belarus i.e. no one cares.