Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 06:24:06 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:10:45 AM

There is an expression that it likely pretty close to being true, and that is that the best time to enter bitcoin was yesterday, and the second best time to enter bitcoin is today.

i kind of like the mentality that the statement "the best time to enter bitcoin was yesterday and the second best time to enter bitcoin is today" brings to every bitcoin holder that procrastinate ever buying Bitcoin or the person that is asking on the right time to buy the DIP. The best time to buy is never tomorrow regardless of the speculation on how low the price of bitcoin might drop in the future, if you can't buy it now, their is no certainty that you will be able to buy it tomorrow.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:10:45 AM

In other words, the mere fact that the BTC price has historically dipped and/or provided unexpected dip prices does not mean that it is going to happen to the degree that any of us is going to clearly and unambiguously be able to recognize such dip as an entry point.

this has been the peril of so many persons that are waiting for the price of the DIP to get to a certain price before they will buy. It's not bad to set a range of price one will buy but once you're just too concerned on the entry point before buying, it makes you more of a trader rather than you buying for the purpose of holding. It's

And there is no reason that any of the newbies could not do both.. ..

so if you are a newbie, buy regularly and often, but you can also have some fiat that is available for buying on dips, if such dips end up happening.

But just looking for a dip without already buying and preparing for UP, is not being prepared.. because there should be nothing valid in preparing for only one direction (down) and not the other (up).

Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 03:08:07 PM

Quote from: Antonil on Today at 04:28:22 AM

As a new investor I don't think it requires much knowledge.
(Though the saying goes that knowledge is king)
But once you go to the market, you can learn all kinds of things by yourself.

as someone that is new to the system, the first thing you should know is that you need to Buy the DIP. You might not necessarily understand how the DCA method works but after buying you can now work on best ways to accumulate more holding and that's where using the DCA method comes in.

You (Hewlet) are bordering upon giving exactly the opposite of what would be correct advice. DCA takes less knowledge than buying the dip, and trying to figure out what is a dip is way more difficult.. especially for a bitcoin newbie.. .and maybe we should not even assume that newbies are lacking knowledge of the world, personal finances, markets, but still their level of knowledge is going to likely vary, even sometimes based on their personality..

Surely, we could come into DCA with absolutely no knowledge, except knowledge about whether we have an extra $10 per week that we are able to use to buy bitcoin.

Yeah, of course, we should try to figure out from where we are going to buy our BTC, and the more that we know about our own particular finances and psychology, the better we can tailor how much BTC (or maybe better said, how much of our fiat we are going to want to use to buy BTC) we are going to want to buy and when.

So one of the problems with buying the dip, especially for newbies, is trying to figure out how much of a dip is enough, yet at the said time, it has potential to cause way too much waiting and not enough action, especially faulting in regards to being prepared for up.. so if you are waiting for a dip and trying to figure it out, you are ONLY preparing for down, you are neither preparing for up and by definition you are not prepared for up... so you likely are being more greedy (and calculating) than you need to be, especially when it comes to an asset like bitcoin.

Regarding knowledge, I personally am not saying that anyone should purposefully be trying to avoid having knowledge of bitcoin, but instead, you start with whatever knowledge you have and you work on building it along the way, yet more importantly, you are likely going to be able to pay attention more after you have bought a little bit and also got started with investing into bitcoin, even if it is a very small amount, you have at least had to go through some process of figuring out how you are going to source your first purchase.

Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 03:08:07 PM

And like you rightly pointed out, Buying of bitcoin doesn't require a complex knowledge, the most important thing you need to know before buying as a new person is the right time to buy. Once you know the right time to buy, then you've successfully launched yourself into an amazing Bitcoin journey.

Again.. you are emphasizing "the right time to buy" which is truly dumb... how is anyone going to know? Experienced traders frequently don't know these matters, and part of the reason that some of us emphasize to buy right away no matter what is the price, especially for your first purchase.. and it likely does not even need to be very much.. .. and yeah, maybe after you spend a bit of time buying, then at a certain point, you might have spent so much buying and the BTC price is moving against you or dipping at various points, so then maybe at some later point you might start to consider various ways to structure your budget to buy certain amounts at various dip amounts, while at the same time realizing that the BTC price may or may not dip further, so there will be some need to account for those kinds of considerations, and for the newbie, the main thing is getting some bitcoin rather than figuring out what might be the best (or better) price to get it.

Think about it. Action is more important than thinking about it, and waiting is not really a very tangible form of action, even if you might be able to later get some bragging rights about having bought your bitcoin cheaper than the person who just jumped right in.. however, it may also be the case that the person who jumped right into bitcoin ends up being way more persistent through years and years of buying BTC, and in the end the person who was more persistent about buying BTC may well end up being in a much better financial and psychological position as compared to the person who spent a lot of time waiting around.

Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 03:08:07 PM

With regards to getting knowledge a long your Bitcoin holding journey, it's necessary you know what's happening in the industry and follow up discussions to know when to expect a possible bull run which will guide you on selling at the right time.

There is nothing wrong with ongoingly learning about bitcoin, yet it can be difficult to know how much is enough too.. because there is so much to learn about bitcoin, and learning could end up being a full time occupation (or hobby).

Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 03:08:07 PM

Knowledge related to your security is also something very important for a new person that has bunch of holdings because if your security is compromised, your holdings is in serious risk and all your accumulation could go overnight so the right thing to do is to get the basic knowledge on the right time to buy, then you buy the quantity that you're comfortable with and then ensure you put out the best security measures in place that will prevent your holdings from being taken from you.

Likely your security needs to be in line with the size of your holdings (and maybe 10x better, just to prepare for possible price rises), so we can consider that any coins that we are holding could appreciate rapidly in price, but still if we are ONLY buying $10 per week, it is going to take us a whole year to have had boughten $520 worth of bitcoin, so we might not be in a position to really buttress our security if our stash is not really very large.

Security is changing too, so we likely could learn more and more advanced security techniques the longer that we are in bitcoin and in the event that our bitcoin holdings are growing too.. and frequently there is a balance too, since some guys had created sophisticated (or should I say complicated) ways of holding their BTC, and then sometimes later down the road, they end up losing their coins because they made their security set up overly complicated and so then they end up losing one part or not knowing what they are doing and then losing some of their coins due to some of their set up choices.

Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 03:08:07 PM

The rest of the knowledge that you will need all available on the forum and by following and inquiring from discussions in the forum, you will do just fine as you climb the ladder of your Bitcoin investment journey.

The forum is interactive, and there are some threads that are better than others, but even threads and users are changing on a regular basis.. and so in the end, we surely should be attempting to learn as we go, and maybe even we end up sharing our knowledge and/or learning from our various interactions on the forum and through various sources that we discover on our own or that we might find through this forum.

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 03:40:41 PM

Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 03:08:07 PM

Quote from: Antonil on Today at 04:28:22 AM

As a new investor I don't think it requires much knowledge.
(Though the saying goes that knowledge is king)
But once you go to the market, you can learn all kinds of things by yourself.

as someone that is new to the system, the first thing you should know is that you need to Buy the DIP.

I disagree to what you said that you don't need much knowledge before you invest, how can you know the DIP when you don't have the required knowledge? see you have to know that havng knowledge and having the right knowledge are two different thing, because buying might be easy but holding can be very difficult if you don't have the right knowledge on all that is required of you, so that you can weather the storm and hold without touching it even when you are seriously in need, In all we do in this life, knowledge is very important, because if you have the right knowledge, you will definitely know that you need another source of income and an emergency fund that would sustain you, not to touch your Bitcoin holdings.

You may have come across a decently good way of framing the matter @Barikui1, which is not very much knowledge is needed to invest into bitcoin or to get started investing in bitcoin, but more and more knowledge is going to be needed if you either want to continue to hold your bitcoin investment or to attempt to be aggressive in regards to increasing the size of your bitcoin investment and/or creating strategies to maintain (reasonably going from accumulation stage to maintenance stage to liquidation stage) your BTC investment.

Quote from: iBaba on Today at 05:42:15 PM

Whether you're starting up with a small amount of capital or you have huge amount of money (i.e your life savings) to invest in Bitcoin. It is key critical for you to understand the nitty-gritty of Bitcoin and to know at what point in time you should invest and at what point you should withdraw is very vital.

None of what you are saying is true, and perhaps even moreso for an investor rather than a trader.. gosh, I am not even sure if what you are saying is true for a trader.. but really who cares, I think that in this thread we are mostly focusing on ideas of investing, which means longer term ideas of bitcoin and perhaps even building our knowledge along the way..

Surely hardly anyone knows the nitty-gritty of bitcoin, and you don't need to know the nitty-gritty prior to investing into bitcoin.

Also, prior to investing into bitcoin, you don't need to know about what points to sell bitcoin... so maybe you have some general ideas of your goals and/or you might consider your timeline to be 4-10 years or longer, and also you might want to make sure that you have one or two ways to exit your investment if you have to (even though you do not plan to, but having a way to exit is likely important to maintain, even if you are not likely to exercise such option).

Quote from: iBaba on Today at 05:42:15 PM

As an investor you need to learn the stop loss habit to learn how to stop an investment when there is an uptrend or downtrend in the market not just being over ambitious or greedy in the investment.

Stop losses relate to trading, and not to investing. So you are talking about trading ideas but you are framing it in investing terms.. so you are mixing up language and likely confusing people.

Fuck stop losses.

if you are mostly longing bitcoin, you don't need any stop losses... especially since you should be ready, willing and able to ride your investment down to zero.. and yeah, hopefully we are not going down to zero, but still the size of your investment should reflect in terms that you realize that the investment could go to zero and you are not selling.. and if anything there are likely various points that you would buy more.. which truly is dangerous if the investment really did end up going to zero.

A lot of people get screwed when the put in stop-losses, especially there are BIGGER traders who sometimes will be hunting the stop losses, so your stop loss gets triggered and then the BTC price reverses, and then you are fucked. You had an investment into one of the best, if not the best asset in existence, and you fucked it up and lost it by screwing around with stop losses.

Quote from: iBaba on Today at 05:42:15 PM

As an investor, It is all about knowledge and discipline when you are investing in any aspects of life whether it is Bitcoin or any other financial institution. Knowledge in the sense that you should understand what the Investment plans are and how you can benefit in the process whilst discipline is to learn when to take out the money that you invest in the business and when to leave it for it to grow.

This last part does not sound incorrect, but I lost confidence in you when you have already shown that you do not know the difference between trading and investing... and we are not talking about trading in this thread, so it does not help if you come here and you talk about trading but you call it investing.. you are just contributing to more confusion than necessary...even if you might not have bad trading ideas, we are not talking about trading in this thread... and don't even continue to argue (like you already have) that stop losses need to be used in investing.. .because they don't.