Quote from: franky1 on March 17, 2024, 10:25:32 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on March 16, 2024, 01:07:37 PM

Sorry, but can I get a little clarification from you - tell me which NATO country is Russia waging war against? I haven’t heard anything about the Russia-NATO conflict. Well, or explain when NATO attacked Russia, or Russia attacked a NATO country?

russia seen eastern ukraine as the safety barrier to keep nato away from russia's borders.

its why russia wanted to take that eastern region and declare it an independent state (no mans land) to keep that buffer space to keep nato/EU at arms length so that russia does not need to defend it endlessly forever

ukraine has been trying to join EU and nato since 2014.. threatening russia at that border should ukraine join the west

..
funny part is.. nato/EU didnt let ukraine join in 2014+ due to the stakes at risk of that same eastern region.. yep even nato/eu wanted ukraine to turn over that eastern region to a independent state to create a no mans land.. but ukraine wants to keep it as part of ukraine and wont give it up no matter who is asking them to from either side

its these reasons nato/EU are not just letting ukraine just join them. to then allow nato/eu armies to drive into ukraine to defend the eastern side.. because eu/nato dont want the eastern side. they dont want the headache, cost, time defending that border forever

from a moral side countries will do trade deals and donations to support defending central ukraine. as thats the moral thing.. but when it comes to the eastern region of ukraine. russia and EU want it to become an independent state (for logic of defence, cost and peace process)

Yeah, well now everything becomes clear. No offense, your misconception is becoming clear, and now I’ll explain what it is.
In 2014, until February, the PRO-RUSSIAN President Yanukovych was in power in Ukraine. The question is - do you think they initiated at least a dialogue about Ukraine joining NATO?

Let me also remind you that the invasion of the country of international terrorist Russia into Ukraine began in February... 2014, in fact on the same day when Yanukovych cowardly fled from Ukraine. Do you think Ukraine made the decision to join NATO in 24 hours? And agreed on this issue by preparing a legislative framework?

The first legislative article, about PLANS for reforming the standards of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to NATO standards, as well as the beginning of a dialogue about the POTENTIAL accession of Ukraine to NATO, appeared only... at the end of 2018! When Russia had annexed Crimea for 4 years and temporarily occupied part of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine.

Yes, I know that after the failure of the Russian army in Ukraine, they changed the “propaganda manual” and began to give out a new reason for the aggression, “Ukraine’s accession to NATO,” although they forgot the chronology and facts. This is a “normal” state for Russian propaganda and their hench media

Now they are talking about the fact that Russia in Ukraine is generally at war with NATO, although... they constantly say that Western countries can provoke Russia to start a war... with NATO, because... The Armed Forces of Ukraine have long been broken up, and a successful 2-3 week special operation ended with the capture of Kyiv... But this is not certain

)))

In summary, I strongly do not recommend reading Russian or Kremlin-controlled media