Quote from: Biodom on Today at 02:42:56 AM

Yea...right.

I will answer tangentially, first (before I forget): @JJG...check it out-your merits are in perfect digital format right now: 10101, kind of rare, take a snapshot or something.
EDIT: too bad...one more and it is out of balance already.

I don't like to spend btc..call me a tight-fisted hodler.
In case of emergency, sure, no prob, but renovation?
yikes.

Yes, I am definitely cash poor because I don't like having un-invested cash laying around, and that includes the bank(s) that pay nothing vs money market paying 5.3% on cash.
Almost everything is invested, one way or another, but, typically, liquid (not some private equity or CD or stupid "timeshares").

I can understand the ambition and wanting everything to be working, but it also seems to me that the more wealth that we accumulate, and if we already know that our investments are performing well (especially something like BTC) we should be able to feel rest assured that the performance of our investment makes up for the lack of the performance of something like strictly cash that would be losing value like a melting ice-cube as the expression goes.

Maybe there is no way to shake you from this way of thinking?. ..

I frequently tend to think that you are too distracted by having a large variety of assets that overall do not perform as well as bitcoin, even though surely you might have some that are temporarily doing better than bitcoin from time to time, but you would have likely had been better off to have had more concentration in bitcoin than the various distraction stocks (or whatever it is) that you own that are likely not performing as well as bitcoin, especially if you are able to zoom out on them.. I know sometimes you engage in bullshit rationalizing in which you might start to compare the 2017 top and then say, we have ONLY gone up 2x or 3x.. which surely is a bunch of bullshit, even though of course there could have been some guys that bought at the 2017 top and jus sat on their hands for the past 7 years, yet I have little sympathy for those kinds of investors.

I just have trouble figuring out how you cannot see ways to really sustainably withdraw from bitcoin, and you even claim to have never been selling your BTC and even asserting that you have more than 20 BTC from time to time, so if you really have been accumulating BTC through the years, not selling, mostly attempting to avoid buying BTC at price peaks (as you kind of paint your own story), then surely you should already be able to envision a path forward for being able to consistently shave off your BTC without getting worried about them losing dollar value. (and yeah, getting back to measuring value from the 200-WMA, which so far has never failed to go up on a daily basis).

Due to my own backtesting of the 200-WMA, I am even changing some of my own thinking in regards to how sustainable it is to even withdraw BTC at a 10% rate rather than the 4% traditional rate, as long as you valuate your BTC sufficiently, so instead of needing $2 million in value at the 200-WMA valuation, you can get by with $800k in the 200-WMA valuation, which largely means that you could start a sustainably withdrawal of 10% with only 24.2 BTC rather than needing 60.4 BTC at a 4% withdrawal rate. .. so yeah that is presuming a $6,666 per month withdrawal rate, and if you are more on the conservative side then you would want to have the higher number of BTC rather than the lower number of BTC that I believe to be sustainable... You can play around with the numbers, here.

Of course, if you have higher monthlies that you need, then you are starting out with differing amounts, but at some point you should be able to figure that you have enough. even if you are not there today, and if you want to stick with the traditional way of valuation because you want to be sure to have enough of a cushion, and if you ONLY have 40 BTC, you still would end up getting to that level by early to mid-2025 based on the 200-WMA continuing to go up, and even if it ends up moving up slower than you expected, there still should be ways to figure out how much of a cushion you need without overdoing it.

Sure, I like to use the $2 million as the entry-level fuck you status, but maybe you feel better with $10 million, but even with that, if you believe that you need a 4% rather than being able to do a 10% withdrawal rate, I think that you are being way too conservative in terms fo what BTC really allows, even if you want to account for taxes and include that into your mix of what you would have left and is it enough..

Quote from: Biodom on Today at 02:42:56 AM

Jimbo about 160 btc. What guy? I did not pay attention, I guess.
I am not sure I followed that line of reasoning.

It was merely the claim that there is clearly an amount that is enough and even more than enough, because there is enough of a built in cushion.. I mean if you conclude that you need to have more than 60 BTC, but you have 160 BTC, then you have a lot of room to play with, and it may be a bit abstract, but you could even say to yourself that you want to have 40 BTC by 2044 (20 years from now), but right now you already have more than 80 BTC, so maybe you would already create a system in which you are able to spend a certain amount of BTC every year so that you would end up spending 30 BTC over the next 20 years so you would already build in a system that would predict that you would still have 50 BTC in 20 years, so you still end up with a cushion.. Maybe it does not make a lot of sense to think about these matters in terms of BTC, even though it does seem that we can project out these kinds of matters that both tell us how much we can spend that might already be structured around some somewhat abstract goals that we might have.

Of course, the 160 BTC example gives you even more flexibility, and even 5 years ago, we may well would have thought that 160 BTC is not enough, and we would have had need 2x or 3x that amount in order to really feel comfortable, so the same is continuing to be true in regards to lesser and lesser needs to have as large of a BTC stash in order to really start to feel that we have enough and/or more than enough.

Quote from: philipma1957 on Today at 03:09:27 AM

Spending from a 20 btc stash is okay if you are over 70 and have other income. One coin a year till you are ninety or .85 coin a year spending those amounts either way should work.

Especially if you don’t care about descendants.

Spending from a 20 btc stash if you are under 50 needs to be very small spends under 0.5 a year would be good.

Yeah, but with bitcoin, you would not need to spend the same amount each year, and you could spend a lesser amount each year.. and draw a percentage of it every year rather than a strict amount. That is why you could be spending in percentages, rather than just 1 BTC per year, and that is part of the power of bitcoins ongoing impressively powerful CAGR that is likely not going to be getting substantially enough worse in order to stop you from likely being able to set your sustainable withdrawal rate at 10%, and still be able to do quite well, even with ONLY 20 BTC. ... ..

So even with a 10% withdrawal rate, that would allow a monthly withdrawal of 0.166667 BTC and sure that monthly withdrawal amount is going to go down because the balance goes down, but it seems more than sustainable in terms that the whole value of the BTC holdings is likely going to continue to gain in price, even with a 10% withdrawal rate. I back tested it.. and also you can ongoingly watch the value of the 200-WMA to make sure that it is remaining sustainable.

It seems to me whether you are over 70 or under 50, you can still spend 10% per year from BTC and it is likely sustainable forever. Of course, you might want to be a bit more conservative if you are worried about it, and of course guys are responsible for figuring out and following their own formulas in regards to how much they think they need and what rate of withdrawal they need, but the withdrawal amount is not a strict amount like you are suggesting to be dipping into your principle.. instead of figuring out a way to perpetually withdraw at a rate that is less than the amount that the BTC is appreciating in value.

You can back test it if you like. .. but you have to start with the right premises and valuating your stash based on the 200-WMA in terms of figuring out your budget, and right now 20 BTC is ONLY worth $663k according to the 200-WMa, and 5 years ago, you would have had needed 191 BTC to be at the equivalent 200WMA valuation, and so if you had spent 191 BTC at 10% per year, right now you would still have around 75.3 BTC, so you would have had kept your value by spending 10% per year, and if you had done the max 10% withdrawal for that whole time, you would have had withdrawn close to $2 million in value during that time... and your remaining stash BTC would be even more valuable (in terms of dollars) than they were when you started.