Quote from: Mayor of ogba on May 25, 2024, 02:14:24 AM

Normally, buying bitcoin in the bear market is the best time to accumulate bitcoin because we will accumulate more bitcoin with a lesser amount of money, and the bear market will facilitate us to achieve the quantity of bitcoin we want to hold because bitcoin is always cheap at that time. For instance, just like JayJuanGee accumulated most of his bitcoin holdings in the bear market, when bitcoin was very cheap, it helped him achieve the quantity of bitcoin he wanted to hold quickly. JayJuanGee can decide not to accumulate bitcoin again because he has already accumulated enough bitcoin, which is very much okay for him. But that doesn't mean that accumulating bitcoin when the price is at its peak or bitcoin halving has happened is bad. It only means you will be accumulating bitcoin when it is expensive, and you will need good capital to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin on time because the demand for bitcoin is high, scarce, and expensive to accumulate.

You might be mischaracterizing a bit my own BTC accumulation journey, since I did not particularly go out to buy and/or accumulate bitcoin in a bear market, and none of us is likely going to know whether we are in a bear market or not or which way the BTC price is going to go for the short to medium term.

So any kind of suggestion that it is best to determine and/or figure out if we are in a bear market prior to engaging in BTC accumulation and/or aggressive BTC accumulation seems to be quite misleading - and it could cause newbies to wait rather than getting started ASAP..

If you don't have any BTC, then what are you going to do wait for lower prices from here? Or if the BTC price does not go down from here, then you are going to wait for after it goes up and then when it comes back down, but to where is it going to come back down?

I cannot see how waiting could be a strategy for anyone who might have assessed that he does not have any coins or that he does not have enough coins.

Sure, some folks might come to a wrong assessment that they do not need any BTC, and sure they can do what they like, but they are likely going to end up buying later and at higher prices, so again, why wait?

There are some folks who are worried about price dips coming, and perhaps those kinds of folks will feel better if they hold some funds aside for buying on dips, but even that seems like a questionable strategy for anyone who either does not have any coins or does not have very many coins.

Quote from: reagansimms on May 25, 2024, 03:36:48 AM

Quote from: Mayor of ogba on May 25, 2024, 02:14:24 AM

Quote from: Stablexcoin on May 24, 2024, 11:42:29 AM

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Normally, buying bitcoin in the bear market is the best time to accumulate bitcoin because we will accumulate more bitcoin with a lesser amount of money, and the bear market will facilitate us to achieve the quantity of bitcoin we want to hold because bitcoin is always cheap at that time. For instance, just like JayJuanGee accumulated most of his bitcoin holdings in the bear market, when bitcoin was very cheap, it helped him achieve the quantity of bitcoin he wanted to hold quickly. JayJuanGee can decide not to accumulate bitcoin again because he has already accumulated enough bitcoin, which is very much okay for him. But that doesn't mean that accumulating bitcoin when the price is at its peak or bitcoin halving has happened is bad. It only means you will be accumulating bitcoin when it is expensive, and you will need good capital to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin on time because the demand for bitcoin is high, scarce, and expensive to accumulate.

The example shown by JayJuanGee can be used by anyone who wants to get Bitcoin when the price is cheap and indirectly he also teaches Bitcoin investors to take advantage of this moment to collect as much Bitcoin as possible. This method is very easy to do, buying at a cheap price and selling it again when the price is high is the goal of investors to get the profit they want. Accumulating Bitcoin when the market is entering a bearish phase will make you calmer and able to hold Bitcoin in the long term without having to worry about the price going down further. The great potential that Bitcoin always presents will allow you to collect Bitcoin at a cheap price in greater quantities.

Collecting Bitcoin when the price is at its peak will make you have to wait longer to get a profit, usually when the price has reached the peak it will experience a sidway which makes your assets experience a decrease in value. I prefer the method used by JayJuanGee because it will give you peace of mind when investing and has the potential to get bigger profits. Another advantage of buying Bitcoin when the price is cheap is that you don't have to wait long, usually the market will experience a Bullish phase after a downturn in a Bearish period.

You are saying a similar thing as Mayor of ogba, which is not what I say, and I surely don't know about what to do when the BTC price goes up... I am not recommending anyone wait, even if the BTC price is going up.. since we can never really know when the BTC price is going to stop going up and we cannot presume a correction, a dip or a bear market...

I am also saying that the longer any of us is in bitcoin and we are continuing to buy bitcoin, there likely are going to be periods in which the BTC price is going down rather than up, but we never know how low the BTC price is going to go or how long the seemingly relatively lower prices are going to continue to stay low.

So yeah, if we are accumulating bitcoin over a whole cycle or even over a couple of cycles, we are going to likely begin to appreciate better that there are periods that the BTC price seems low, but also the longer that we are in, we would have had already spent a considerable amount of time already buying bitcoin and probably some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at higher prices and some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at lower prices. .. so there is going to be a mixture of prices in which we had bought our bitcoin and we can calculate our average price per bitcoin too and we can calculate the extent to which we might be in profits or not.. so those kinds of calculations regarding our bitcoin stash size, its value and where we want to get are more likely to inform us in regards to what we are going to want to do... so it might become obvious in our own context, but not obvious in the abstract, and in the abstract my overall suggestion is just to keep buying no matter what the price for at least a whole cyle, and depending on your own level of buying, you may well need to just keep buying for a couple of cycles before you might start to feel comfortable to modify your approach in a way that attempts to calculate dips rather than just ongoingly buying BTC at any price within the context of your discretionary budget.. and not waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening..

Quote from: Troytech on May 25, 2024, 05:51:27 PM

Quote from: Churchillvv on May 24, 2024, 07:27:43 PM

[edited out]

You are still struggling a little with what a discretional income is, investing from our discretional or disposable income doesn't mean in any way that we are neglecting our investment in bitcoin and doesn't mean that its some kind of left over or little amount.

A discretional income is what is left after we have taken out the money for our necessary expenses, I think i already gave you an illustrative the last time but I think I'll have to start all over,
Mr A is earning a 1000$ and lives in a small house with little bills to pay, so after he has taken out his necessary bills and expenses he ends up with 500$ in his discretionary income and can decide to keep an extra 100$ for floats and invest the rest into bitcoin on a weekly basis and this is achieved because he has little expenses to make and hence his discretionary income is bigger after he has removed the necessary expenses.
Mr B can also be earning same amount and has a higher expenses based on the kind of house he chose to live and lifestyle he has so he winds up with only 300$ as a discretional income after after his expense and decides to keep an extra 150 floats for enjoying himself and invest 150$ into bitcoin.

So in essence the discretional income is determined by how much of an expense the person has and how much he can avoid out of his income, and at same time it's also possible that the person can chose to favour other things than bitcoin investment with his discretionary income.

Your example is not bad Troytech, yet I am considering that you are trying to suggest that both Mr. A and Mr. B have the same discretionary income, but they choose to spend their discretionary income in different ways..... so Mr. B is actually spending more money on luxury items of consumption.. so therefore he ends up with less discretionary income after he had made his choices, but largely they started out with very similar levels of discretionary income, especially if we were to really drill down into basics. There can be some guys who choose to live in a house that has $500 in monthly expenses and another in $800 of monthly expenses, so whether we call the left over discretionary income or not, might be another story since sometimes life choices can take a while to change and even to figure out if it is possible to cut some of the expenses once they had been chosen several years back, yet anyone can still make changes little by little...and maybe even realizing that some of the ways that he is spending his money is actually discretionary, even though he might have had labelled it as needed expenses. We might be belaboring some of these points too much.

Quote from: bhadz on May 25, 2024, 10:09:03 PM

Quote from: avp2306 on May 23, 2024, 11:59:09 PM

What those people need to know that short term investment bring more higher risk to them than investing on bitcoin for long term that's why they should focus on things that can actually give them high chance to earn. And in process they should consider to learn certain flaws that can affect their investment decision so that they could earn success and they will not get easily bother by anything that might happen in future. Its interesting to see that now there's a lot of people is engaging with this hodl discussions since we can learn a lot of knowledge coming from multiple source that can help us became more better investor.

I bold the part about how many are falling for scams. Because of the thought that are given to them about aiming to earn with high chance. Well no doubt doing it on Bitcoin gives them that but if they're going to focus on it, they might just land to the scamming tactics of cons.

Are you going to delay your investment into bitcoin based on your speculation that you might get scammed? How much of a delay are you going to make? Does the possibility that you might get scammed stop you from investing $10, $100, $1k, $10k? At what point does it become more important?

Surely I am not suggesting that anyone is sloppy in their various personal safeguards, but there are likely levels of BTC accumulation that might be able to take place by holding BTC in various 3rd parties even prior to transporting to self-custody - so yeah, the larger the amounts of the investment, then then more urgent the need to employ higher levels of security... and those security thresholds are likely going to trigger at different points for different folks - while at the same time, it seems a bit problematic if anyone is failing/refusing to start to invest into bitcoin because they believe that they need to better learn things about bitcoin security.

Quote from: Justbillywitt on May 26, 2024, 07:02:07 AM

Quote from: Ryu_Ar1 on May 24, 2024, 06:09:39 PM

Quote from: Churchillvv on May 23, 2024, 06:33:17 AM

Perhaps you're probably correct, about your assumption that how much of your discretionary or disposable income is what determines how much you should invest rather than how much you earn, but I'd like to point out to you @Tmoonz that you're wrong from a different view point; bitcoin investment is not a default option in which you must invest what you have at your discretion; it's an important choice that should be taken seriously.

Perhaps when one talks about investing in bitcoin, it is supposed to be a very important part of one's life that is worth cutting other expenses to increase the rate and/or level of your investment; your lifestyle can wait for a moment, but bitcoin cannot, so you must sometimes not make yourself too comfortable by investing a small portion of your income in bitcoin, instead take it upon yourself to make a better portion of your income count by investing it in bitcoin. For instance, if you earn $200 per week and your weekly spending for the so-called lifestyle is $190, and you have roughly $10 in discretionary or disposable income, is that a good investment? Absolutely not! So it's basically how much you earn and a percentage you're willing to give for the future, rather than what's in your disposable income, because bitcoin isn't like shitcoin, where you can put whatever you want, but you decide how much of your income should be invested in your long-term investment scheme.

I think it's not a problem, okay maybe it would be great if we could minimize the expenses that we will do because after all it becomes a plus because with that we can be more free to be in bitcoin with a little bigger but in the end we also have to realize that we don't need to force it directly because investing in bitcoin is not a compulsion and the initial benchmark is still how ready you are to lose and we also have to see how much budget we really have to fulfill consistently so that what we do in investing in bitcoin does not eat up the budget of the others.

With this in mind if indeed we have around $200 of income and we have to spend $190 for our needs then there is no problem if indeed it is only $10 because this is our ability. although indeed in terms of profit also in the end it will not be much different but if indeed we can afford it only that much then still do it because forcing it to be more can ultimately burden yourself in the future.

See this matter of investing in bitcoin is also something we should take seriously as much as we need to plan for our daily needs, we also have to understand that needs don't finish and they keeps coming up on daily basis, but as much as we have to take care of other things we have to understand that we have to take our investment in bitcoin very serious too. If someone is making a monthly income of $200 and he is investing only $10 I think it's very poor. If you are making monthly income of $200 you should at least invest 10% of the money which is $20 and I don't think it's too much. If $190 can carry you for a month, I think $180 will equally be enough to carry you for the moment. In as much as we are investing, we should also target to have a reasonable amount of fraction of bitcoin and to accumulate it, we have to make some certain level of sacrifice.

Sure I am all for investing 10% or more of the income, but we cannot know if discretionary income is sufficient to be able to invest 10% in cases in which we might not know expenses and $200 is a pretty low income to expect (or presume) that such a person is able to invest - even though I know that a lot of participants in this thread claim to have income levels in such low amounts.

Quote from: Mayor of ogba on May 26, 2024, 03:37:19 PM

Quote from: JiiBs on May 25, 2024, 01:25:16 PM

[edited out]

A lump-sum buy doesn't necessarily mean you have to wait for the bitcoin price to dip before you can lump-sum. You can decide to start your bitcoin investment with a lump sum buy to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin, and after that, you can stick with the DCA strategy to accumulate bitcoin either weekly or monthly. Unless you are on bitcoin for short-term profit, that is when technical analysis comes into play to help you read the market and have a clue when to buy bitcoin so that it will not affect you not to take your short-term profit when the bitcoin price is high. Secondly, technical analysis will delay your bitcoin accumulation journey because you will be waiting for the result of what you analyzed to happen before you can accumulate bitcoin, and if it doesn't happen, you will not accumulate bitcoin. That's why it's good to be in bitcoin for the long term so that you will not need any technical analysis skills before you can accumulate bitcoin. If buying the dip is your problem, the DCA strategy is here to help you achieve that because you will be accumulating bitcoin even when the price is increasing or decreasing.

Of course, buy the dip, DCA and lump sum are three separate concepts, and sometimes they can be combined, but the mere fact that they can be combined does not mean that each of them should not be understood in terms of what each of the concepts mean on its own... is there a need to repeat what each means?

Maybe just in regards to lump sum.... it is an amount that you already have and you are considering what to do with it. Buy all right away, or divide it up.

Another thing that a lump sum could be accumulated into the future.. . or there could be an amount of money that is being saved, but it is not really known how it is going to be used until at a later date... that money could be considered lump sum.. even though it also could be considered part of reserves that are building up and perhaps without any specific designation regarding how such reserves are going to be used - except maybe some kind of an event might trigger that such funds are to be considered to be used and/or maybe a whole rethinking of such funds upon certain future currently unknown events.. and so then some of that amount could become a lump sum amount that becomes available for the purpose of BTC investing.

We cannot necessarily presume lump sum to even be an option, since sometimes people come to bitcoin an they don't already have cash available and/or they might not even have other investments from which they would be able to employ lump sums, so sometimes it does not even make sense to presume lump sum as an option when it is not automatically an option that normal people end up having and even if they were to have some lump sum potentiality, they would first have to designate such amount towards bitcoin investing, which might be an actual obstacle for some folks in which DCA makes more sense for them since they are not ready, willing or able to redesignate some lump sum amount that they might have towards bitcoin investing.