Quote from: Kliss on June 17, 2024, 06:35:38 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 17, 2024, 04:18:43 AM

[edited out]

The difference between lump summing and buying the dip is significant. Saving extra money to buy the dip is best described as buying the dip or timing the market, buying the dip involves seizing the opportunities when prices drop, lump summing is more about investing a larger sum of money at once.

Maybe that is the confusion in lump summing... it is not about buying a bunch at once, but instead having the ability to buy at once because of somehow receiving extra money or coming accross extra money..

so if extra money is (or becomes) available. .some or all of that extra money can be used to buy BTC right away, or it could be plugged into DCA and/or into buying on the dip systems.

How come I feel that I am repeating myself?

Maybe it is not a BIG deal? but there still is a difference in the practices, and guys who understand the difference are going to be advantaged.. and maybe it does not matter so much what guys do or do not do, even though maybe part of the reason that we are participate in a forum like this or a thread like this is to be able to advantage ourselves from knowledge and being able to act upon such knowledge whether we are buying BTC right away or making various plans about future buying of BTC.

Quote from: Kliss on June 17, 2024, 06:35:38 AM

For beginners focusing on consistent DCA investing might be a safer and more straightforward approach without trying to time the market if someone is already investing through regular DCA, holding extra money aside might not be necessary especially in their early years.

For sure this is correct.

Quote from: Kliss on June 17, 2024, 06:35:38 AM

However, having the freedom to take advantage of lump sum opportunities can be beneficial if extra funds become available, whether through bonuses, inheritance, or other sources.

Ok. This makes sense too.

Maybe I was just quibbling about the way you were saying it earlier.. with the seeming convolution of ideas that sometimes happens when members describe the differing ways of accumulating bitcoin.

Quote from: Kliss on June 17, 2024, 06:35:38 AM

It's essential to understand the tradeoffs between sticking to a strict DCA strategy versus setting money aside for potential dip opportunities. While holding extra cash for buying the dip can be interesting, especially for those starting with lump sums or front loading, it might not be as necessary for those consistently DCAing.

This part seems to be described correctly too.. so maybe I just was quibbling with your opening sentence that came off as confusing and even seemingly misleading to me.

Quote from: Obim34 on June 17, 2024, 07:42:19 AM

Quote from: Kliss on June 17, 2024, 06:35:38 AM

The difference between lump summing and buying the dip is significant. Saving extra money to buy the dip is best described as buying the dip or timing the market, buying the dip involves seizing the opportunities when prices drop, lump summing is more about investing a larger sum of money at once. For beginners focusing on consistent DCA investing might be a safer and more straightforward approach without trying to time the market if someone is already investing through regular DCA, holding extra money aside might not be necessary especially in their early years. However, having the freedom to take advantage of lump sum opportunities can be beneficial if extra funds become available, whether through bonuses, inheritance, or other sources. It's essential to understand the tradeoffs between sticking to a strict DCA strategy versus setting money aside for potential dip opportunities. While holding extra cash for buying the dip can be interesting, especially for those starting with lump sums or front loading, it might not be as necessary for those consistently DCAing.

All what JJG mean is that lump sum is also an effective approach to accumulate Bitcoin most especially during the DIPs but that shouldn't stop us to keep aside percentage of that funds to DCA,

Surely I am not saying that lump sum is something to apply for dips, especially since I am saying that lump sum and buying on dips are different kinds of strategies that are based on differing reasons for doing one or the other.. the mere fact that you might buy a lot of bitcoin on a dip does not convert that buying on dip to lump sum. .since lump sum is different from buying on dips, even if a lot of members are convoluting the ideas..

Quote from: Obim34 on June 17, 2024, 07:42:19 AM

It is far better than just saving the money then waiting for the Dip before investing. In context, all strategies can be effective all in one investment setting depending on how and when it is implemented.

Differing strategies may well end up with differing payoffs, and you gotta figure out what you want to do and live with the consequences of your own choices.

Sure one strategy might pay off more than another strategy, and some strategies might employ gambling aspects that may or may not pay off... and also I doubt that all strategies are necessarily effective, since some strategies might be more effective than others including that some strategies might be better tailored to the personal specifics of a guy, so maybe having personal tailoring is one of the most important things, even if your portfolio might not end up performing as well as another simularly situated person who came into bitcoin at the same time.

Quote from: Btcdeybodi on June 17, 2024, 07:40:18 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 17, 2024, 04:18:43 AM

[edited out]

..... you can still have some reserves to take care of sudden needs pending your next income and you can also see reasons with me that lump summing is more better during a drastic DIP even though you don't continue the DCA for sometime again so you could regain the cash that you used in lump summing at a DIP from your conspicuous income that you would have used to DCA and it now stands as a reserved funds.

Maybe this is the part where I am quibbling, since as soon as you say that lump summing is better (or more better) during a dip, from my point of view, you are no longer lump summing but instead you are buying the dip. So in that sense the idea (or framework) of buying the dip as a motivation supersedes the lump summing idea. Once you have a dip and you are motivated by the dip, you are buying the dip, and it does not matter if you happen to have a lump sum amount that you happen to have set aside.

On the other hand, if you coincidentally receive some extra money, and the BTC price happens to be dipping, then you might be motivated by the fact that you got more money and you are thinking about whether to buy more BTC with it or not, and if you tell yourself that you are going to buy more BTC because the BTC price is dipping, then surely it may seem that you are motivated by buying the dip and not from the mere fact that you suddenly have more money.

Maybe we are going too much into overlapping scenarios, yet it still seems to me that sometimes we are going to hold money aside because we are waiting to buy the dip, and other times, we get the money and we are deciding what to do based on our having had received extra money, so if we receive extra money and we authorize ourselves to buy bitcoin with a certain amount of that money, there are three categories that we can place that authorized amount.. .buy the dip, DCA and/or lump sum... we can put some or all in one category or we can divide it into 2 or 3 of the categories.

If we tell ourselves.. wow.. the BTC price is already dipping, I am going to buy some BTC, the motivation might not be buying the dip as much as having had received some extra money and just deciding to buy right now with a certain amount of it. On the other hand, if the person receives $1,200 extra and s/he decides to buy $400 right away, put $400 in buying the dip at ($100 at $65,006, $100 at $64,006, $100 at $63,006, and $100 at $62,006 -with current prices at $66,451), and then $400 to DCA with the buying of $50 per week on Tuesdays at 1pm for the next 8 weeks), then the extra money has been plugged into the three categories... so anyhow, repeatedly it just seems confusing and misleading to me to label a buying the dip act as lump summing merely because you might be buying more than your normal amount upon a dip.. since if you are motivated by the dip or you set your dip prices, then you are still buying the dip, even if you end up being spontaneous about it rather than pre-planning the matter, yet on the other hand, if you end up receiving some amount of money that you had not expected, the mere fact that the BTC price might be dipping may not necessarily be motivated by the dipping as much as it is motivated by the receipt (or discovery) of more money.

Quote from: Btcdeybodi on June 17, 2024, 07:40:18 AM

However, a beginner may not comprehend these various strategies at the start of their investments as they will be more focused about the DCA because it is easier and doesn't allow regular monitoring of market prices.

Yes.. sure a beginner may well be more served by just focusing on ongoing persistent and consistent DCA... but still even a beginner might start to DCA, and then all of a sudden receive extra money and have to decide whether to buy BTC right away or to plug that new money into the three categories. Let's say if such newbie bitcoiner has an income of around $36k per year, and the person has decided to invest $100 per week (which would amount to $5,200 invested into bitcoin after a year).. so after buying bitcoin for 1-2 months, all of a sudden such newbie received a bonus at work, or inheritance or some other surprise amount of $2,400, so the person may have had authorized such extra money to go to bitcoin and can decide to buy bitcoin right away (which would be equal to half of the already existing yearly amount) or to plug parts of that extra money into the three categories of buying the dip, DCA and lump sum (buying right away), and he could decide to put $800 into each category. .or he could decide some other variation of how to allocate (authorize) that is completely discretionary and flexible to his own wishes including his accounting for his own financial and psychological factors.

Quote from: Btcdeybodi on June 17, 2024, 07:40:18 AM

I am not trying to complicate between lump summing, buying at a dip price and the DCA but I am more concerned about lump summing only when a dip occurs

Yeah.. lump summing when a dip occurs is not lump summing. .it is buying the dip;.. and if you are saving up some of your extra money in order to buy the dip with a lump sum amount, then you are still buying the dip.. and the mere fact that you have saved up a lot does not convert that into lump summing. If you are calling buying the dip lump summing, then it seems to me that you are creating unnecessary confusion and convolution of terms.

Quote from: Btcdeybodi on June 17, 2024, 07:40:18 AM

and continue to DCA some other time that is for someone who have understood the activities of the market.

Yeah of course there is nothing wrong with combining of practices including continue to DCA while you are buying the dip.. if you consider that to be a good way of going forward with your BTC accumulation. Each of us decides what combination of methods and even how much of each to employ based on our various factors regarding discretionary income and also if we might get extra cash coming in from time to time that might create circumstances in which we might have to consider how to strategize our BTC accumulation with the use of the new money coming in - if we are lucky enough to have such circumstances in which we might consider that we have options regarding how to do our BTC accumulation - including whether we might be taking chances or timing dips with part of our money or if we might just be buying right away that may or may not be considered DCA or lump sum depending if there might be extra money that comes in or if we might be just categorizing our funds from our regular income (or our regular amounts of discretionary income).

Quote from: Btcdeybodi on June 17, 2024, 07:40:18 AM

Just like you said, I don't want it to look like you are making repetition of yourself however it is also important for a beginner who have spent some years DCAing to know how to split their income between buying at Dip prices, lump summing and DCA. thanks for your concise explanation jayjuangee

Of course the more years someone has investing into bitcoin, such person might start to feel like his options might be changing based on an amount that he has already invested into bitcoin.. There can be changes in the feelings of being prepared for UP with persons who already have bitcoin as compared with folks who have little to no bitcoin.

Quote from: Chiomaobi on June 17, 2024, 09:40:03 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on June 17, 2024, 04:18:43 AM

[edited out]

You are right, saving up to buy in the dip is not a good strategy especially for we the newbies, a lot of things could happen at that point of saving that could make one lose his or her saves so is better one uses the DCA strategy and start accumulating, I love this DCA I'm using and all thanks to JayJuanGee and others in this forum who discussed about how good the DCA strategy is i read all the ideas you guys issued out on The strategies of Accumulating Bitcoin.
As a newbie is advised to use the DCA strategy as not to disturb your brain on thinking and calculating when there will be a dip. Bitcoin investment is easy based on the kind of investment strategy you are using and it will be better one uses an easy strategy so as to be successful in your Bitcoin accumulation as for me I don't like anything that will disturb my brain and using the DCA method has been a very nice choice and it will also help me get to my target easily without stress and emotional damage's.

Yep.. there is likely never going to be any perfect strategy that maximizes profits and all of that.. so maybe many of us are going to be better served to accumulate as many bitcoin as we can while still attempting to maintain a balance without necessarily getting too greedy... so yeah, one of the great advantage of mostly focusing on some form of DCA (whether it is strict in amount or merely strict in terms of consistency or some other way of doing it) is that there can be a good deal of focus that helps us to tailor our investment amount and our investment frequency in accordance with our own budget and other aspects of our finances and psychology.

Quote from: Tungbulu on June 17, 2024, 09:44:56 AM

Quote from: Obim34 on June 17, 2024, 07:42:19 AM

All what JJG mean is that lump sum is also an effective approach to accumulate Bitcoin most especially during the DIPs but that shouldn't stop us to keep aside percentage of that funds to DCA, It is far better than just saving the money then waiting for the Dip before investing. In context, all strategies can be effective all in one investment setting depending on how and when it is implemented.

In essence, JJG basically sughests that investing in Bitcoin would be far more successful and profitable if a hybrid strategy was used.

I doubt that I am suggesting which strategy(ies) is (are) best, but that guys have to figure out which strategies is good for them based on their own situation, and surely there can be some strategies that make more sense than others. .depending on how new a person is to bitcoin and other individual factors.. so if each of us knows we could choose our strategy(ies).. so maybe some folks would be better off with strict DCA.. until they get to a certain level of BTC accumulation, but each person has to choose his own level of BTC accumulation.

I am also suggesting a 4-10 year or longer investment timeline into bitcoin in order to call it an investment rather than trading or gambling, but in the end, guys can do what they want and call it what they want.. so in those cases there might be disagreement regarding their approach to bitcoin, even though each of us is free to figure out our strategy or combination of strategies.

Quote from: Tungbulu on June 17, 2024, 09:44:56 AM

This way, investors could:
1. profit from the market while it's in a DIP by using the lump sum plan.

I am surely not saying that... .., but I would suggest that if someone comes to bitcoin and they have a plan to invest $100 per week for 5 years, and at the same time, they lump sum invest with something like $5k, they might also benefit by creating a buying the dip plan too, in order to supplement the lump sum that they started out with and their planned DCA practice.

I am hardly saying anything about profits even mattering in the first cycle or so of investing into bitcoin, since after 4 years or so, there might be some reassessment, including considering the extent to which the BTC buys are profitable.. but I hardly give too many shits about whether the bitcoin investment is profitable in the first 4 years or so.. even though surely it might feel better to be in profits, being in profits is not a central concern (and probably should not be) for the beginner investor during his first cycle.

Quote from: Tungbulu on June 17, 2024, 09:44:56 AM

2. Average out market fluctuations through the DCA strategy and also reducing the risks associated with timing in the market.

I might be saying something similar to that, but really I think that DCA is a great way to manage the amount that you invest into bitcoin, especially since the DCA will come from the discretionary income, so whether the DCA amount is strict or it varies could also depend upon how much a guy's discretionary income varies and other personal choice trade offs the guy might make in regards to whether he wants to be aggressive or whimpy in regards to his bitcoin investment and also in regards to how well he has his finances in order in terms of his various backup funds and/or cash cushions.

Quote from: Tungbulu on June 17, 2024, 09:44:56 AM

You can be able to diversify the approach you use in your investment by employing a hybrid approach, thereby potentially mitigating the risks of losses as well as also maximizing returns. It's true that this method of investing in Bitcoin is more adaptable and may yield greater returns than depending solely on one strategy.

Boy i haven't really thought about a hybrid approach or the possibilities, I guess learning never ends, because this assertion has also opened my windows of perspection and possibilities.

Sure.. I probably have discussed various kinds of ways to combine strategies, but I doubt that I am suggesting that a hybrid approach is preferable to a non-hybrid approach - and surely some folks might not be in a position to take any kind of hybrid approach until they get their finances in order,. so there may well be some preferences and/or benefits to building up an emergency fund and other cash reserves prior to becoming aggressive, and then maybe my own proclamation has been that guys should attempt to be as aggressive as they are able to be without over doing it.. so the devil can be in the details regarding figuring out the extent to which someone might be being sufficiently aggressive without going too far.. and also a guy might not realize that he went too far until he has some kind of an emergency that ends up testing his own set up.