Quote from: dkbit98 on July 26, 2024, 10:50:30 AM

Is there any new updates for Ring wallet?
I saw waiting list is now opened for €84 that includes 4 cards and seed phrase backup.
This price is significantly lower than Tangem Ring wallet, but we still don't know anything about source code and release date.

Hey thanks for the message and sorry for the radio silence but we focused on trying to progress as much as possible in the last month. I also had surgery because my appendix broke so that sucked. Anyway, first off, to be clear, that's a discounted price (84), the non-discounted price would be 99 but yes that's still considerably cheaper than Tangem's Ring.

Now to answer the other questions. I'll be honest, Tangem Ring will probably be delivered before ours, but we're not that far away and have done a lot of progress. We actually received our first official production batch of 200 rings and 800 ace cards (4 ace cards for each ring). I am hoping that by the end of next week I can make and a video using the actual ring and app and then post it. These rings will also be sent to influencers / community members etc. Hopefully we can start shipping these rings to people in ±4-6 weeks and I also want to maybe have like 2-3 people from the forum to send them the ring and test it out. It would all be free but we need to find a way to select whom we'll send it to (like a raffle) and we would probably ask that whoever receives them makes a video of them using it or something.

Regarding source code - we have decided that we'll make the code open source, though this will be made upon publishing, meaning the order is 1. Publish the apps in app store / play store ; 2. Public the source code of the apps as open source (to be clear, if we do this before, someone can just submit it to apple before us, either way, ideally we want to submit the application for review and publication in the next month or so which means the code for the apps will be published as open source soon, let's say. within the next 2 months approximately). We will also publish the code of the ring firmware (which tangem hasn't published), but we will publish that when we get closer to shipping the rings for the exact same reason as above. I still don't know 100% what type of license we'll use but it will be an open-source one.

Regarding how the ring will be released and release date - we have given this some more thought after discussions with friends, partners and also here on bitcointalk, so we are now discussing again, whether to launch a Kickstarter/Indiegogo campaign or whether to just do a presale (like other wallets do). The thing with Kickstarter is we really love the concept, but to give an idea, this is the answer we got yesterday from one of the biggest kickstarter agencies in the space (who btw, was a crypto user and liked the idea), it's a link because I can't post pics for some reason, probably my rank: https://imgur.com/LnhoLHV

When asked why he says that because we did see some campaigns launched, he said this: https://imgur.com/9xtFBuc

Furthermore, if we do run the campaign through Kickstarter/Indiegogo, that means we either a) can't accept anyone paying in crypto which would be ironic or b) we have to run 2 campaigns simultaneously, one on the website for crypto payments and one on KS for card payments. So we're still undecided to be honest about how we'd launch. To give a proper date, however, the plan looks something like this:

Wait on all the final things we need to receive (such as boxes), publish the apps, send the initial rings to influencers and etc, publish the code, launch a campaign (whether on KS or our website). Realistically, I would say we can probably be ready to launch the campaign around Oct 1st, the campaign would last 30 days and would be limited to 10,000 or 20,000 pieces for preorders. We would then start shipping out the rings about 2 months later which would still be a bit later than Tangem because they start shipping around end of October. So yeah, I want to be honest there, realistically we'll probably ship after tangem.

Now, since I logged in to answer, let me answer the other questions as well.

Quote from: DaveF on June 26, 2024, 08:59:14 PM

Actually it's quite common. There are just things that are easier to do with a US based company if you are foreign. CC processing, dealing with taxes and such, insurance needs if any and so on.

Have dealt with a few foreign entities here in the US over the years I can how this might have helped them.
-Dave

Yeah honestly everybody recommended we do this and it was for multiple reasons. If for example we choose to run a Kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign, we wouldn't have been able to do that without a US entity (Romania is not accepted for eg). Furthermore, there's more limitations, for example if we want to get proper licensing for fiat on-ramps / off-ramps then having a US entity is simply a legal necessity because otherwise you can't get a license. Besides that there's also the usual stuff, such as the ones mentioned by Dave. It's also the fact that most VCs are US based and require US based companies and finally Romanian law has some limitations in various regards, for example the concept of an option pool literally does not exist as per Romanian law, which made having an option pool for future employees much harder, vesting itself isn't really regulated etc. I'm not sure if this is public but I can also share it if it's not, point is we made a 30% option pool on the US company to be able to reward early employees and future employees etc so that was something we really cared about among other things.

Quote from: Vod on June 26, 2024, 06:21:59 PM

You either were scammed, or you know as much about this as you did about Kickstarter. Domestic is a lot cheaper, but obviously illegal.

RESIDENCY
Domestic means that this entity is domiciled in Delaware.
Foreign means that this entity is domiciled in another jurisdiction but registered/qualified to do business in Delaware
https://icis.corp.delaware.gov/Ecorp/FieldDesc.aspx#RESIDENCY

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've researched this and looked at both your link and multiple other links. You actually mentioned it as well but I think you misunderstand what foreign means: "Foreign means that this entity is domiciled in another jurisdiction but registered/qualified to do business in Delaware."

This means in simple words the following: if a company (llc/corporation) is registered in Delaware, it is a domestic company. If a company is registered in a different state other than Delaware (say California for example) then it is considered a foreign entity and must be registered as a foreign entity in order to conduct business in Delaware. The same applies vice-versa; a domestic Delaware company must register as a foreign entity to do business in California for example.

Foreign company does not mean it's registered by foreigners. Nor does domestic mean it's registered by US residents. Either one can be opened by either US residents or non-US residents and neither is illegal. Below, I am posting the process of registering as a foreign company:

Foreign Company Qualifying in Delaware: Cost Breakdown
IncNow can complete a foreign qualification for a non-Delaware company looking to do business in Delaware. Completing a foreign qualification in Delaware requires the following:

Obtain a Certificate of Existence (Good Standing) from the company’s home state,
Hire a Delaware Registered Agent, and
File a Qualification Certificate with the Delaware Secretary of State’s office.
Foreign Limited Liability Company – Delaware Foreign Qualification Cost

$200 State filing fee
$189 Agent processing fee
$99 Delaware Registered Agent fee
Certificate of Existence (Good Standing) from home state.
Foreign Corporation – Delaware Foreign Qualification Cost

$245 State filing fee
$189 Agent processing fee
$99 Delaware Registered Agent fee
Certificate of Existence (Good Standing) from home state.

They also explain what it means to be a foreign company: A “foreign company” refers to any company that conducts business outside of its home state of incorporation. For example, a Delaware LLC with an office and employees in California would be operating in California as a foreign business entity.

And here's the full link: https://www.incnow.com/foreign-qualification/#:~:text=What%20is%20a%20%E2%80%9CForeign%20Company,as%20a%20foreign%20business%20entity.

Lastly, as you can see from the above, it's not any more expensive to register as a foreign company either way, it's ±500$ to do so. But we don't have a company in a different state, so there was no way for us to register a foreign entity unless we first created an entity in a different state first, which would've made no sense. Also, it is perfectly normal and ok to have your legal entity in Delaware even if you're not based there, live there or work there. You have to follow some guidelines like having a registered agent who does live and do business in Delaware, which we do, but that's it. Tesla is still legally based in Delaware though they don't work or live there. Anyway, I hope that clears things.

Quote from: Vod link=topic=5495902.msg64259046#msg64259046 date=1719426119
[quote author=dkbit98 link=topic=5495902.msg64257854#msg64257854 date=1719407476

I don't understand why did you have to complicate things with creating separate US entity for Ring wallet.

It makes him appear more trustworthy, like when he posted all private messages between us, redacting non-PII for show - political. Sad

His entire response chain has been reactive. Hey, that's a good idea, or Yes, we will do that. They should have had all the details in writing before they started promoting a heavy discount to purchase early.
Hopefully my vigilance on this one will activate his alpha male brain and he'll develop these things just to prove me wrong! I might even buy one!

But right now, this is still vapourware waiting for funding and the owners have not been identified.
[/quote]

Look, I understand why you say we should've had all details in writing before promoting a heavy discount to buy early and that's fair. It was definitely not the best approach. But let's be clear; we wanted to get feedback first, so naturally we didn't have everything set in stone because that was the entire point of getting feedback. Initially I was dead-set on making the code source-available under a business license, and after reading the various feedback here and discussing this with more people it made me realise that was a mistake and not really in the spirit of what this is supposed to be, and so we decided to change that, so I'd say asking for feedback before we had everything done was definitely helpful to be honest.

Anyway, it's valid criticism that maybe we should've waited more before posting, but I also believe it's good to sometimes give people at least a little benefit of the doubt. We still haven't sold anything, the worst we did was advertise a waitlist for emails and a discount. Regardless, I think that when we post a video of the actual app and ring, followed by publishing the apps in the official stores and finally publishing the code will hopefully build some credibility and you as well as other people won't see this as vapourware anymore. I mean sure, we're not Ledger or some bigshot company, but at the very least it'll show that we built something; whether people like it or not that's a separate topic and something we'll eventually find out.

P.S. Here's some pictures of the first production order we received of 200 rings + 800 cards (basically 200 boxes, because each one has 4 cards for shamir):
1. https://imgur.com/WTtsEWy
2. https://imgur.com/WAkpIoo

I'll get back on the forum when the videos of the app + ring are ready and I can post them.