Quote from: Dump3er on Today at 08:20:44 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 15, 2024, 06:57:44 PM

[edited out]

That's why the thread title might be misleading the newcomers because they believe the most important precondition of getting into bitcoin is to identify the DIP first. But no, that would again be timing the market > time in the market, which in the case of bitcoin has proven utterly wrong till this date.

There surely is some correctness in your assertion that there is some misleading elements to the thread title, and surely may well go to show that any of us (and all of us) need to read beyond the title to both figure out what is being discussed in the thread and to figure out our own approach to bitcoin in terms of some of the compelling forces wanting to get us to wait for dips prior to beginning our bitcoin investment (accumulation) strategies, and yeah, a lot of people get fucked with those kinds of mindsets, especially when it comes to both getting started with bitcoin and going down the path of employing an ongoing bitcoin investment strategies and accumulation approach.

Practically, the overwhelming majority of the world's population likely are not able to invest into something like bitcoin with just one (or even a few) entry points and then just let their investment ride, and even someone who might be able to both front-load their bitcoin investment and even engage in some kinds of lump sum investing are going to be advantaged by ongoing investment into bitcoin whether that is adding DCAing and/or buying the dip.

I have no problem with considering all three kinds of BTC accumulation approaches of DCA, lump sum and buying the dip, and even adding in ideas of HODL for those times in which money might be running out.. or even mistakes had been made... And, each of us are likely going to do better if we can figure out when, how and where to employ such strategies, and likely including that even in the better of bitcoin accumulation scenarios, a large number of bitcoin newbies are likely going to go through at least a whole cycle before they have even come close to accumulating an adequate and/or sufficient BTC holdings (stash) to really prepared themselves for UP.. and sure, there are going to be some exceptions from some folks who had already established themselves some kinds of investments who are able to allocate (or reallocate) some of their earlier investments into bitcoin, yet even some of those folks who might be considered as front loading into bitcoin, they still might be taking nearly a whole bitcoin cycle to really get themselves into a relatively solid bitcoin position..

Look at Michael Saylor and MSTR as a kind of example, even though Saylor/MSTR are a bit of a psycho when it comes to bitcoin accumulation.. but they likely still took several years to really establish their position, which part of that is reasonable and another part is a bit psycho since many folks are not going to come even close to that level of aggressive in terms of their investment into bitcoin and frequently will be much more reasonable starting in something like a 5% to 25% allocation into bitcoin and surely maybe bitcoin might grow to way more than 50% of their holdings, but not necessarily using leverage and various financial instruments to be over 1005 of their investment holdings, which I would consider overly aggressive and unusual and even unnecessary, especially for normal individuals.

My point is that from my perspective, it can take a bit of time to establish a fairly solid bitcoin position, even from folks who are able to aggressively front load their investment into bitcoin, yet many normies are not even going to come close to the ability to be as aggressive as someone like Saylor, so even if they choose within their own financial and psychological boundaries to be relatively aggressive within their own boundaries, an overwhelming majority are still likely going to need more than a whole bitcoin position to really get to a point of having had established a meaningful bitcoin stash size.. and frequently these things cannot be rushed.. as I have mentioned so many times, there are regular folks who invest strongly and aggressively and consistently in traditional investments for 30-40 years and they may well never make it to fuck you status, so some folks who are newbie investors, they may well expect that even a better case scenario of investing into bitcoin may well take them 15-20 years to reach fuck you status.. while at the same time being more aggressive may help to shorten the timeline, being more aggressive does not create guarantees and also there can be lines in being overly aggressive that might well not be worth it to cross, because it is much more important to continue to stay in the game rather than to get kicked out of the bitcoin investing (stack building) game because any of us might have had errored too much on the side of being overly aggressive and ending up devolving our approach into gambling rather than investing.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 12:54:33 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 15, 2024, 06:57:44 PM

Quote from: Ambatman on July 15, 2024, 05:55:52 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 15, 2024, 02:00:01 AM

So far, I had never heard about Treasure wallet as a software wallet, so I am not sure how secure it is. Maybe you need to provide a link?

judging by their lack of review and 1K+ download on play store
I still can't really find what's special about it.
Can't even find it on Github.

Quote

I disagree with you on this last point of yours because for one to be able to know how to speculate and read charts is very complex for a newbie who plans to only buy bitcoin regularly with DCA and hodli for a very long period of time.

I wouldn't say it's that complex
But just not really compulsory or necessary.
Just have the mindset that as you are buying under $100K you buying cheap
But don't forget there's nothing in this world that ain't associated with an element of risk.

You suck when it comes to quoting.

I found your first quote (so I fixed it to show it was from me). and I think that your second quote is from me too.. but it is not easy to figure out where that is and I hate wasting time trying to find from where you got it.

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 15, 2024, 02:00:01 AM

Quote from: As-Soon-As on July 14, 2024, 11:18:16 AM

Wallets are generally of two types, software wallets and hardware wallets. Especially those who use software wallets and the most powerful among software wallets is Treasure Wallet, Electrum Wallet, these wallets are very safe and affordable.

So far, I had never heard about Treasure wallet as a software wallet, so I am not sure how secure it is. Maybe you need to provide a link?

I have heard of Trezor as a hardware wallet, and they have several models of hardware wallets - look at trezor.io.

Hahah.. very funny quote. I equally made some research to find out the place where the exact word was used by you @JJG, but I was able to see it from the link to this my quote. And it was not a direct reply to him but to @as soon as. and the second quote I didn't see. But as the case may be you have already answered the question to what he asked, but I just wan to draw the information closser to you to make it easy for you since you can't find it. And we are here to help each Oder solve problem. It's quit funny the way he quote I presume he doesn't know that much about quoting.

Many times it is going to be better to quote in such a way that we can see from where the quote came, especially if the whole post is not quoted.. but yeah sometimes members will overly abbreviate.. and maybe sometimes their intent is good, since frequently it is not going to be necessary to quote the whole post, but just to quote the relevant part(s), yet again if ONLY the relevant parts are quoted, then it tends to be more convenient to easily be able to go back and look at the whole post in order to remember the context in which the quoted part had been said... kind of an ability to have a memory refresher (if such going back might be needed for the one who is reading the response - and perhaps even better being able to understand the response).

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 12:54:33 PM

Quote from: Felicity_Tide on July 15, 2024, 08:34:59 PM

Quote from: Justbillywitt on July 15, 2024, 08:11:17 PM

I want to correct one impression that you are making here that many people are utilizing the DCA method because it is easy to use. No that's not the case, rather many people are making use of DCA strategy because it is more effective way of investing in bitcoin as it reduces the impact on the capital invested should there be a sudden drop in the market. The DCA method makes the capital outlaw not to reduce drastically when there is a sudden decline in the bitcoin market. This is the more reason why many people are comfortable with using the DCA method of bitcoin investment, not because it is easy. Also the DCA method makes it easier for people to buy bitcoin at their own pace according to their financial level. The truth is there is no method of bitcoin investment that's difficult to use.

You are literally contradicting your own explanation. How about I tell you that I prefer to use the DCA strategy because it is easy to use?. At least, I don't have to monitor Bitcoin price for an entire 24 hours, to observe when there is a dip(for those who only buy the dip). Bitcoin investments, especially to those who are new to it, shouldn't be explained with too many terminologies and complexity, but rather as smooth and easy as possible. Just as you've pointed out, "the DCA method makes it easier for investors to buy Bitcoin", which depends on their financial capabilities (source of income). It's always a continuous process, that doesn't need too many grammer or math solving to explain.

I see that @Justbillywitt is trying to make a point and somewhere along the line maybe he didn't land whe he ought to. And yea surely there are time when we feel we are saying what we think and yet we are not getting it right or may get it right but others see it in Another way. I think what he is trying to say is that DCA strategy is not easy as people think. But what make people think it simple is due to the small fraction they buy weekly and it's not affecting our discretion amount, and if bitcoin price dips we may still have some amount in our discretion to still buy more . But that doesn't mean that DCA strategy or investment strategy is easy.

But in my own opinion DCA may not be as easy as people think, but I know surely it's the easier way of investment compeard to lump sum or buying the dip that is why it is seen as the easier way and not the easiest. because surely most people can not still afford to invest through DCA because of there low source of income or the Level of their discretion. So I may say it's an easier way for investment for those who are willing to invest no matter how small, but may be difficult for those who are not ready or willing to Start.

Ultimately I agree that there could be some element of DCA investing that is the "easiest" of any kind of investment approaches, but whether we label DCA as easy or not might also depend upon context, since even lump sum could be easy in the sense that maybe a guy buys bitcoin one time with a lump sum, and then just waits for 4-10 years or longer to see what the lump sum amount had done. So there could be ways that any of the investment/accumulation styles could be set up in a more systematized way that does not require very much follow up, and of course the more aggressive that we might want to be in terms of using most of our discretionary income, then we might contribute towards our investment approach to become less easy because we might even be doing weekly balances to attempt to maximize the use of our discretionary income while not devolving into gambling (or over doing it), and so surely if we try to incorporate trading or even incorporating strategies that we are using money beyond our discretionary income (which might be deemed as overly risky or gambling), then we can cause even something like DCA to become less easy because of our level of aggressiveness that might even be considered as going overboard, even though technically we could still proclaim that we are using a DCA strategy, but the way that we choose to use it could make it more challenging (and less easy) to actually employ in the way that we had chosen to employ it... even though technically, our choosen strategy still fits within the definition of DCA.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 02:55:25 PM

Quote from: Akbarkoe on July 15, 2024, 05:30:45 PM

Source
Let's stop arguing for a moment, we see that bitcoin is back up to $63k it is a very fast price reversal by bitcoin after experiencing a price drop to below $55k.

Congratulations to some people who may do DCA at that price level will be very happy for you, yesterday was scared because it had a lot of market fud that affected bitcoin to decline, Holder is winner and DCA is always a very sharp sword to get prosperity with bitcoin.

Maybe it will be a DIP to reverse the bull market again.

The recent DIP was caused by the German government's irresponsible market sell orders they did on the Bitcoin market. But because there were probably investors that saw it as another opportunity to buy the DIP, they took advantage of the German government's actions. Cool

I believe that there will not be another DIP like what recently happened again, BUT Mt. Gox Bitcoins have been moved again - to an "unknown wallet".

I am not too big of a fan of single cause explanations regarding BTC price movements - even though sometimes there seems to be some credibility to certain kinds of stories, including if there was both a lot of hype that coupled the German government's selling of their coins, then that could contribute towards scaring normies out of their coins in such a way that is way greater than the actual selling of the coins, and surely whether Germany actually sold their coins or not who the fuck knows? It appears that they sold their coins rather than just moving them to some other location.

Another thing is that it seems likely that Germany (and whoever else might have been behind the hype of Germany's supposedly selling their coins), they likely would have had preferred the BTC price to drop way further than what ended up happening, so surely there were likely a lot of weak hands doing the exact opposite of what they should have had been doing while the BTC prices were below $60k, which should have had been buying BTC rather than either selling or failing to buy... and yeah, a lot of folks were likely dissuaded from buying bitcoin also in the sub $60ks since they were too busy waiting for further BTC price drops rather than taking action to take advantage of decently sized and lasting BTC price dips.. and yeah, maybe many of us do not really care too much if there are dips or not, since many of us might be buying BTC no matter what the price in the coming cycle or so, yet at the same time, part of the sentiment of this thread helps us to appreciate that if we had been buying BTC in the upper $60ks and even lower $70ks, we may well feel some positive benefits in terms of being able to buy more BTC with the same quantity of dollars (or other fiat) if we had been consistently, persistently and perhaps even aggressively buying below $60k.

Don't get me wrong. There is no way that I am really recommending to hold back very much value for those kinds of buying on dip opportunities when they come, so surely each of us has to figure out our own budgets, including how much BTC that we have been already accumulating in order to figure out if some portion of our budget or our reserve cash amounts might be held for buying on dips, and these are not easy decisions (or balances) since any time that we are holding back some of our buying for potentially buying on dips we are waiting with that portion of cash for BTC price dips that may or may not come. Dips are not inevitable. Sometimes they do not occur. Sometimes they occur at an amount that is difficult to figure out in advance, and sometimes they stayed dipped for a period of time that is outside of what is within any of our abilities to predict. So since it remains so difficult to figure out these kinds of BTC price dynamics matters, it likely remains good to try to create and maintain BTC accumulation systems that attempt to be somewhat (financially and psychologically) neutral to short term BTC price moves, while maybe even having some kinds of cushions in our systems that help us to take advantage of what seems to be inevitable BTC price volatility, even though we cannot really pinpoint with any kind of precision the direction of such seemingly likely inevitable BTC price volatility.. and surely even I have frequently proclaimed that one of the most certain aspects of BTC price dynamics remains its volatility, even though we cannot really have any kind of high confidence regarding the direction of such volatility or even when and how it will show itself.

Quote from: Odohu on Today at 04:50:11 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 02:55:25 PM

The recent DIP was caused by the German government's irresponsible market sell orders they did on the Bitcoin market. But because there were probably investors that saw it as another opportunity to buy the DIP, they took advantage of the German government's actions. Cool

What if it is because of me that the German government sold to enable me collect more Bitcoin for my DCA value Cheesy

. Well, we don't have to be too emotional to the point of calling their action irresponsible because believe it or not, there will always be buyers and sellers in the market in response to the forces of demand and supply. Besides, if there are no selling willing to give up on their Bitcoin easily l, many people like us will not see the opportunity to take advantage of such generosity.

I have learnt to focus more on myself in this journey, so that I will be able to secure my future by consolidating on every opportunity I see in the market. In other words, I always aspire to get better at prudent management of my finances. I think this is more important than trying to dictate what the week hands do with their Bitcoin.

Exactly!!! Focusing on our own cash management and the specifics of our cashflow situation - that likely fluctuates to some extent from month to month, including some of our desires (and preferences) regarding what kind of things (purchases) we might feel that we might need urgently or whether we might be able to defer some of our purchases (and the ways that we spend our income or even various parts of our savings). Personal financial management can have a lot of challenges, yet if we create and maintain personally tailored (and even adaptive) cash management systems, we can feel very rich from our having had put such systems in place, even if relatively speaking we might not be financially rich, but we end up creating systems for ourselves that give us a lot more options than if we had not put such systems in place.

We can even create and establish very powerful personal cash management systems that cause us to feel rich, even while we might be relatively early in our BTC accumulation (building) journey, and we might even forecast that it may well take us longer than 20 years to reach a real material fuck you status, yet at the same time, we have built cash cushions in our cash management systems that give us a sufficiently large number of options that even if we have not reached a strict fuck you status, we have reached a kind of miniature fuck you status... if there might be such a thing? or if we might imagine ourself in such a powerful position that includes a large number of options.. and yeah, maybe we cannot feel miniature fuck you status while we are still in the earliest of stages of building our emergency funds, reserve funds and float (along with building our BTC stash), yet the longer that we make progress in regards to having fairly solid systems in place with various kinds of reserve funds and an every growing BTC stash, we likely feel more and more and more empowered by how we are setting ourselves up.. even though still building and maybe even sometimes getting our debt in order too... since some folks will come to investing into bitcoin (or even other kinds of investing), while realizing that they might be living in a kind of debt situation rather than really having positive networth, so there can also be empowerment in terms of getting debt in order or at least getting it into a place in which it is manageable and not causing unnecessary stress.