Quote from: philipma1957 on Today at 01:45:08 PM

So I see smart USA people selling at least enough to pay the tax . which is 20% if it is big or 15% if it is small enough

Your explanation makes little to no sense to me, and I still fail to understand how someone with no taxable event (distribution of coins is not a taxable event) would sell coins based on a taxable event that they expect in the future - which the selling of their BTC creates a taxable event, but if they don't sell any then why would taxes be due?

Quote from: philipma1957 on Today at 01:59:03 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 08:32:19 AM

[edited out]

DO not tell anyone that this is not taxable event in the USA

why should anyone in the US assume an event to be taxable merely because you are assuming it to be taxable.

Does not seem taxable to me... and yeah people can do what they want, but I am going to say that the distribution of coins already bought does not sound taxable to me.

Quote from: philipma1957 on Today at 01:59:03 PM

I am simply saying there is no ruling on this and that it could be taxable .

Who fucking cares if there may or may not be a ruling or if could possibly maybe potentially be taxable when a reasonable interpretation on the face of the matter is that it is not taxable.

Yeah, go to your accountant, attorney or whatever other source that you have if you feel that you need to clarify what seems to be a non-taxable event.

Quote from: philipma1957 on Today at 01:59:03 PM

Plus since you get it now at 65k a coin if the IRS says it is taxable they will base it on 65k and if you listen to the other non usa guy that say it is not due til April of 2025 when coins drop to 30k they will base it on 65k.

So only moron would take a score and end up with nothing.

okay 5 coins were 3250 now 650000

lets agree with you that he had 33 coins they were worth 21,450

got 5 coins worth 325,000 profit of either 303,550 or 321750

to think you should not pay 15% before sept 16 if you are USA based is stupid and high risk more.

I don't know. If a guy has a total of 38 BTC and he got 5 from Gox distribution, then he starts to pay or to calculate his tax obligation at the time that he actually sells any of the coins, and his basis in his Gox goins are going to be from whenever he bought his Gox coins, which could be anywhere between $0 and $1,163 that he might have had bought those Gox coins. His 33 subsequently bought coins could have a cost basis anywhere between $200 and $73,794, depending on when he purchased the coins... His tax obligation may well relate to various ways that he accounts for the coins and other deductions that he might have.

Quote from: philipma1957 on Today at 01:59:03 PM

To pay the 15% is safe. you can bet your bottom dollar guys that stumbled into this score. Will not pay and will pay

As some people are gamblers and some are not.

I have zero skin in the game. The safe move is pay the 15% if it is smaller or pay the 20% if it is bigger.

The moron move is not to pay.

It would be dumb to pay taxes if there weren't a taxable event. It may also be dumb to sell coins and then create a taxable event by selling coins that you may well might not have had to sell..

Protip: I would suggest that the default position is not to sell coins rather than assuming that there is a need to sell coins. Perhaps part of the reason that you (philipma1957) hardly have any bitcoin is because you are ongoingly and continuously presuming needs to sell BTC when you don't need to, and hopefully no one who is anyone is listening to you. hahahahahaha.. Another protip: when in doubt, don't listen to philipma1957..

Quote from: philipma1957 on Today at 02:54:23 PM

LOYCE is likely to be correct.

THE point I started here is it is very likely USA people will face a tax on this windfall.

Worst case is 20% due Sept 16 2024 assuming you get it before Sept 16 2024.

So anyone with tax savvy experience is cashing and paying the 15 or 20 percent tax ASAP.

THINK ABOUT IT let's take someone that had 50 coins or 32500. They likely took a lost on that in 2014.

THEY NOW recover 10 coins worth 65000k each. Since they were declared a loss in 2014 it would be a 650,000 gain. It is possible it may not be capital gain which is even worse.

I based it as capital gain. I am certain that you are not getting an IRS ruling on what to do. So paying the cap tax ASAP is the sefeest most conservative thing to do.

Thus I am thinking as much as 30% of coins are getting sold ASAP when it comes to USA holders.

There is no way I would let a 650000 score that drops to 520000. With 1 simple payment in Sept. Turn into a big fuckup because I did not pay. IF COINS TANK to 20k and I waited til April 2025 I still pay 20% of the 650000. Which is 130000 tax.

IF I pay quick Ì have 8 coins left
IF I pay slow I have maybe 3.5 coins left.

The idea that my way gives me 8 coins of ten coins
THE DELAY could give more if coins go up or far less if coins drop and paying a penalty to boot.

Perhaps your whole scenario of some kind of a supposed taxable event had been triggered by having had already declared all of the received coins at a loss in 2014? So then what are the fact? We are anticipating that USA folks had already declared their GOX coins as having had been 100% lost in 2014? Then in those circumstances the coins might be considered as income and potentially trigger a taxable event. My earlier scenarios (or assessment of the facts) did not presume the coins to have had already been declared as a loss (in 2014 or otherwise).

Maybe I have to reluctantly change my protip to: Protip: Take whatever philipma1957 with a large grain of salt.. especially when it comes to his suggestions to sell your bitcoin.

Quote from: WatChe on Today at 06:35:30 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 16, 2024, 10:22:36 PM

I have no objection to your idea of taking advantage of BTC price corrections, but fuck your dumbass characterization of a correction (or just one aspect of BTC consolidation) as if it were a bear session.. that is dumb as fuck, even if you are using the word "session" rather than "market." Your use of the term "bear session" versus "bear market" does not save you from such a misleading (and maybe misinformed) perception of where we are at, how we got hear or maybe where we are going.. since using the term bear is misleading.. See my post from earlier today.. even though I am not even sure if I am responding very much besides just proclaiming that we are not in any kind of "bear.. blah blah blah".. since how can you be in a "bear.. blah blah blah" if you happen to already be in a bull... so both a bear and a bull cannot simultaneously exist, and we happen to be in a bull.. but no.... some folks want to suggest (mislead or just speak gobbledy-gook) by trying to suggest that a bear exists within a bull.. It makes absolutely no sense... and they need to either fix their way of thinking and/or fix their ways of presenting such bear/bull ideas.

Your idea of being in bull market is primarily based on 200-WMA and that's correct because from November last year price of Bitcoin has gone up considerably as compared to 200 WMA. As on Jul 14, 2024 Price of Bitcoin was 59152$ while 200 WMA was 36835$. If we stick with 200 WMA then we will remain in bull season for coming months.

Hm?

I doubt that would be a reasonable interpretation of what I said (or my assessment of why and/or when we got into a bull market).

Even though I tend to be adamant and argumentative about my claims of whether we are in a bull market or not, I am not claiming to be any kind of an expert regarding these matters, yet it seems that I already said that part of the assessment of getting into a bull market is when their is a pretty decently strong assessment that the bottom is in, and the 200-WMA is a crossing over point that was easy to reference for when we got out of the bear market and went into a bull market either in mid - 2023 or late 2023..

So largely I am proclaiming that there has not been any corrections that have been significant enough since late 2023 for us to go back into a bear market, so it makes little to no sense (and it seems even retarded to me) to proclaim that we could be in a bear market and a bull market at the same time... so that is not exactly triggered by the 200-WMA, even though the 200-WMA could be used as a guage to attempt to figure out if the bottom is in or not or if there might be a new bottom formation that is relevant to proclaiming that we are no longer in a bull market.

So there is more than one reason that I find your comment to be problematic.

1) a potential proclamation that we could be in a bear market even though you used the term "bear session"

2) implication that we could be in a bear and bull at the same time

3) it is just confusing.. and even you probably don't even believe that we are in a bear market that is why you used the term "session" rather than "market" but that is still confusing from the perception of this here cat, to the extent my perception matters

and/or

4) there might be some other reasons that I am leaving out.. so I would like to throw in some more reasons to attack your proclamation.. and yes, we are in a bull market.. so even BTC's price performance is quite great, so I cannot even see why people (including you) are wanting to prematurely throw in ideas of bear.. even if there might have had been some innocent explanations for such, including that you could have just talked about corrections and consolidations rather than talking about bear assessments.. but whatever, you do you, and even if I am not backing up myself very well, I am going to continue down these kinds of opinionated paths, and perhaps even lashing out relatively innocent soothsayer wannabes (is that you?) from time to time.

Quote from: OgNasty on Today at 06:40:41 PM

Let me clear up some misinformation being spouted. First of all, kraken got user funds they will be distributing next week or the following week to individuals. Secondly, settlements aren’t taxed as capital gains. Selling to pay taxes on these coins is a thing that will happen. Many people will likely owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes based on their distribution regardless of what they do with the coins. The idea there won’t be selling is a fairytale.

When in doubt, don't sell.

I am talking to you GOXers.

This is financial advice. Tongue

Quote from: Hueristic on Today at 06:53:35 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on Today at 06:40:41 PM

Let me clear up some misinformation being spouted. First of all, kraken got user funds they will be distributing next week or the following week to individuals. Secondly, settlements aren’t taxed as capital gains. Selling to pay taxes on these coins is a thing that will happen. Many people will likely owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes based on their distribution regardless of what they do with the coins. The idea there won’t be selling is a fairytale.

You just can' help yourself, can you?

Are you shorting still?

Hahahahaha

Good one.

Quote from: OgNasty on Today at 07:00:15 PM

Quote from: Hueristic on Today at 06:53:35 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on Today at 06:40:41 PM

Let me clear up some misinformation being spouted. First of all, kraken got user funds they will be distributing next week or the following week to individuals. Secondly, settlements aren’t taxed as capital gains. Selling to pay taxes on these coins is a thing that will happen. Many people will likely owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes based on their distribution regardless of what they do with the coins. The idea there won’t be selling is a fairytale.

You just can' help yourself, can you?

Are you shorting still?

What can I say, correcting misinformation as an involved party is my weakness. Always has been on this forum. I just wonder why the statement of fact to correct misinformation bothers some people so much.

I’ve never shorted Bitcoin (see, that whole correcting misinformation thing). That would be insane. I actually am irresponsibly long and expecting BTC to be at least $135K by next April.

That correcting misinformation piece is what Jbreher used to always say when he was pumping Bcash and even sometimes Bcash sv bullshit.

Quote from: OgNasty on Today at 09:29:04 PM

Let me say this again for the people in the back. Nothing anybody says here has any effect on the market whatsoever.

Thanks for clarifying that point, again.

Some of us (dummies here) erroneously believed that our comments in this thread (and perhaps on the forum) affected BTC prices.