Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 09:37:10 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on July 29, 2024, 08:22:53 PM

Quote from: arwin100 on July 29, 2024, 11:45:13 AM

But what I think the people could able to handle this are those who have deep pocket and so eager to learn those technicalities whatever it takes or scenarios they are facing on.

Your point seems misleading to me. I doubt that you need deep pockets in order to learn to trade or to become good at it and/or profitable.

More than anything, you do likely need time and probably a bit of smartness to figure out how to use various trading tools to your advantage, including that you might well end up using various shitcoins as some of your trading tools.

Traders might be smarter than investors in various ways, but the mere fact that you are smart does not mean that you will make money, and it could take quite a bit of time to create and implement various systems that end up long term causing the trading to be more profitable than a more strict accumulation/investment approach to bitcoin... especially long term.. since there can even be quite a few years of streaks of profitability, yet push comes to shove to be able to get through a cycle or two and still be able to compare that trading ended up being more profitable than what might have had been a more straight-forward and strict accumulation/investment approach to BTC.

No intention to mislead people regarding on that situation but the deep pocket means is just to endure the pain of losing and to continue since they still have lots of funds to use.

Yeah, but so what? You don't need a lot of capital to either invest or to trade in bitcoin. Sure, the more capital you have the more advantaged you will be, yet bitcoin gives you a lot of opportunities, even without large capital, and you work with what you got.

So many times, poor people whine about how they would be so much better off if they had more capital blah blah blah.... and those seem like waste of time mindsets.. since you can both ONLY work with what you got, and yeah, it is obvious that more capital provides more options.... yet at the same time, there are opportunities, right here in front of all of us, to invest or trade in bitcoin without much capital at all. You can start with $10 or $100 or even $1k is not a lot of capital and figure out your strategy from there.

Don't get me wrong. Even though I mention trading, I surely am not much of an advocate of trading, especially with bitcoin and especially that there may well be way better ways to make money to invest and to build the capital that you have in your investment portfolio... and it going to tend to take a long time to build up an investment portfolio, whether you trade or not and whether you get income from a variety of sources, especially if you are starting out with low capital.. so yeah in some sense I am agreeing with you that it is better to have more capital, yet that is an obvious point.. and not even hardly worthy of being discussed since it is so obvious.. ... and yeah there could be some folks who are able to make more from trading than they would with any kind of a regular job.. but yeah, we get back to a certain kind of point that the investment portfolio (or trading portfolio or combination of those) needs to be built up if there is some kind of expectation that income from the investment and/or trading portfolio are going to pay for the person's living expenses in part or in whole, depending on what kinds of income such person might have from other sources... These are all in need of calculation for any investor and/or any trader..

Most folks, maybe even close to 90%, will not really be able to make money trading that would be sufficient to pay for their living expenses and still be able to invest or to maintain their investment or to maintain principle in their trading account, so these can be both complicated calculations, and also calculations that have quite a bit of individual variability that specifically relate to the person's 9 individual factors.

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 09:37:10 AM

Since compare to people which only have enough funds to gamble provably in that cases they would just quickly realize that trading is not for them and shift their attention to other things which they think more profitable to them.

Like getting a job or establishing a business or some other ways of making money through providing labor.. and yeah there are some kinds of self-established businesses that are less capital intensive than other kinds of businesses that might be more capital intensive and might not be immediately available to do for someone who might be starting out with relatively small amounts of capital.

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 09:37:10 AM

Maybe this is the reason of other people why they decide to go on hodling since they have enough for their past losses gotten from trading and decide to go on less stressful investment option and decide to be consistent in it.

Trading is promoted quite a bit, and maybe even on the surface can seem like a fairly quick way to increase capital, so surely there are a lot of times that newbies are being lured into trading way prior to their skill levels being adequately high enough in order to accomplish profitable trading. It is difficult to be overly general about these kinds of ideas, since it can really take quite a bit of time to get used to what bitcoin is and how to build a stash of it, and so getting lured into trading could surely distract from more meaningful and self-empowering studies of ways to approach bitcoin on a personal level.. that might involve building up a stash of it.... which also would lead us into considering any person's abilities to invest into anything, whether bitcoin or otherwise, since there are likely a decent number of folks who come to bitcoin and they are also new to investing, so if they do not really have any investments, then they might have to learn about investing and various cash management skills, including learning how to manage their disposable income (presuming that they have disposable income) over time periods that are likely 4-10 years or longer, since probably there is not really any such thing as investing into bitcoin in less than at least a 4 year period. So anyone who might proclaim that they are investing into bitcoin, but they do not have at least a 4 year timeline for their investment, then they are mixing up the concept of investing and trading, so they might well be gambling or trading with bitcoin rather than investing into it... so yeah, some of the concepts might be difficult to figure out and for any newbie to match actions with ideas - including getting started buying bitcoin.. and yeah, there may well be a large number of persons who might get scared by the idea of needing a 4 year timeline, so if they are needing to get started right away, they may well have to start out with a consideration that they might end up selling bitcoin within a period that is less than 4 years, so they may well come into bitcoin with the idea that their position in bitcoin might be a kind of trading position that may well convert into an investing position as they get to know bitcoin and as they develop some conviction regarding their ability to commit to having an investment timeline that is 4-10 years or longer...and surely such "getting into bitcoin" process is not going to be the same for everyone, since people do tend to want to create their own balances and comfort levels, which truly might be part of the reason why bitcoin investment numbers still remain so low with likely less than 1% of the world's population actually holding any amount of bitcoin (whether holding the bitcoin themselves or holding it through a third party custodian for price exposure purposes).

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 09:37:10 AM

Yeah they maybe smart but the question is are they sustainable? since for what I see for past traders I know they are so good at first and excited with their trades but later on when they find out a lot of things needed to consider and there's always a huge risk involve in each trade they made they realize that they need to quit, since they are actually not gaining anything compare to the huge effort they need to spent on their trades.

Fair enough. It can be difficult for anyone, whether newbie or not, to either maintain or to actually build an investment portfolio (or trading portfolio) while actively trying to make trades.. rather than coming up with some kind of a plan that mostly focuses on accumulating assets through ongoing buying.. and surely in the crypto space there can be several kinds of assets that distract away from the accumulation of bitcoin, which surely many of us recognize and appreciate that bitcoin is the only crypto asset that is worth accumulating and/or holding for the long term, so the various other crypto assets (aka shitcoins) may well be used for trading purposes and/or long term purposes, even though newbies (and even decently smart people or even longer term investors) can be tricked into believing that some of the various shitcoins are less shitty than others and that they can be long term plays.. blah blah blah.. . so yeah, there can be quite a few distractions when it comes to how to build a bitcoin portfolio, including even some difficulties in being able to identify that bitcoin is the prize and pristine asset that needs to be focused upon and figured out without getting overly distracted into too many tangential matters, whether that distraction is into shitcoins or into trading rather than investing.

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 09:37:10 AM

That's why I like the idea about holding bitcoin since it doesn't force us to be smart and we just need to accumulate also apply the working strategies and wait for the planned timeline on when we would harvest our profit.

When you mention "harvesting profit" you sound like a trader rather than an investor. If an investor is in something like bitcoin long enough, there likely should develop an understanding that bitcoin is likely going to end up being a life time asset that remains in his investment portfolio and ends up giving him more options down the road, and there likely going to be no need to harvest profits, since profits should end up largely being presumed to be ongoingly present within the holdings of bitcoin, so there should not be too many concerns about either measuring the bitcoin holdings in other assets, products, services or currencies, but instead realizing that bitcoin is the most pristine of locations to hold value.. and so value from other places would be used (and spent) prior to using/spending bitcoin.. but yeah, if there might be times in which a person might have 80%, 90% or more of his assets in bitcoin, there might be some needs to make sure such person has other assets, whether that is properties, stocks, bonds, commodities or cash/cash equivalents.. and at the same time everyone needs an income for expenses, so at some point, there might be choices to not work for income.. so then the income for expenses may well come from assets or the management of assets or the income from assets... yet even if we are getting some or all of our income from various assets, I doubt that it is enlightening to refer to those various kinds of incomes from assets to be harvesting of profits.. especially when it comes to bitcoin itself since bitcoin is likely going to continue to be the most pristine of the assets that are being held based on its various properties, including its ongoing and likely liquid nature.

Quote from: arwin100 on Today at 09:37:10 AM

Although some might not agree with that because they are trader but its fine since they have their own opinion regarding on what they take regarding in this matter.

Sure traders and investors are likely to have differing ways of characterizing their activities, and even their considerations in terms of the extent to which they might keep investment capital separate from trading capital, and perhaps some traders will make the mistake of either not having investment capital sufficiently separate from trading capital, and they also might get sloppy in terms of making sure that their funding of expenses is covered or has its own ways of projecting the money that comes in for that, so if they might be mixing up their categories and/or even using investment capital or expenses money for trading, then we might consider that they are engaging more in a kind of gambling rather than trading, and so there can be all kinds of extremes in terms of how much some of the traders might be successful in terms of their creating systems that separate the various kinds of funding and that they are able to maintain various kinds of funds to also make sure that they appreciate if they might be in a building stage of their journey (frequently referred to as accumulation) or maybe a maintenance stage or perhaps in a liquidation stage. So the stage of their journey will also affect how they deal with and categorize their various sources of capital, funding and cashflows.