Quote from: Lidger on Today at 06:46:19 AM

Quote from: Popkon6 on July 31, 2024, 11:06:37 PM

All original investors will want to keep their bitcoins for a long time. That is why every investor should implement their plans, because investing must be planned. Although currently there is a massive dip in the Bitcoin market, as Bitcoin reached $70k, from where it has touched $64k.

This is the gap that is created and the most success is possible if you buy the dip according to this gap. So every investor needs to have a separate fund in his investment list to buy bitcoin dips, and continue to invest in regular DCA method with other funds.

An investor who starts investing for the first time invests with a plan to hold his investment for a long period of time. Investing with such a plan and working according to that plan is very difficult in reality. After investing many challenges come in front of us that after overcoming the challenges it is difficult to retain the investment and maintain the continuity of the investment.

For sure if someone is brand new to investment, they are going to likely face some challenges in regards to learning about (or improving) their cashflow management techniques, and one of the best teachers is experience. for the brand new bitcoin investor, one thing is learning about investing and cashflow management, and the other thing is learning about bitcoin.

Of course, if someone had already been investing prior to coming to bitcoin, they may well already have some knowledge, techniques and practices that are transferrable into investing into bitcoin, yet so many of us bitcoiners (who have been in bitcoin for a while) likely recognize and appreciate that there are some aspects of bitcoin that might contribute towards needs to adjust some of the investment and cashflow management techniques in order to attempt to account for some of the unique attributes of bitcoin... and of course, the kinds of experience that a prior investor has might allow for better and/or easier habits when it comes to bitcoin, yet surely there could be some investors who might need to unlearn (maybe tweak) their techniques and practices so that they are making sure that they are tailoring what they do towards bitcoin... at least that portion of their investment portfolio. .and surely there can be prior investors with several kinds of investments in their investment portfolio and other kinds of investors with only a few assets in their investment portfolio and some of the prior investors will continue to maintain their earlier investments while others might end up gravitating their investment portfolio to become more heavily weighted into bitcoin.

A transition period could be executed in a relatively quick way or such a transition period could drag out for several months or several years... depending on individual circumstances... sometimes there could be selling of other assets in order to accumulate bitcoin and other times there could be discontinuing the investing into other assets while building a bitcoin position, and there surely can be variations of the extremes and some of the circumstances might even change during the process of transitioning into bitcoin.. for example a person who has some invested assets in something like a 401k that includes employer matching might well be influenced regarding how much he is ready willing or able to invest into buying bitcoin directly, yet bitcoin spot ETFs might come available through his employer's plan or alternatively he might lose that job or get some other job, which could also affect how he transitions and/or considers his price exposure to direct BTC buys versus holding BTC through a third party, such as through employment related investmemnt offerings.

Quote from: Lidger on Today at 06:46:19 AM

For example, some may invest a portion of their income with a plan to invest it regularly, while some investors invest without planning that they may need the money in the future. This shows that the first person who wanted to invest continuously depending on the income is not able to invest regularly due to other needs of the family and the second person who has no future plan has to sell his investment to meet his needs. Proper planning is required before investing.

For sure, some general planning is necessary before even investing into bitcoin, yet I doubt that the planning necessarily goes beyond merely recognizing and appreciating that any money investing into bitcoin should be considered as a 4-10 year or more investment, so in that sense, the investor needs to assure that he is taking from his disposable income rather than from money that he needs. Yes, if he screws up and concludes that he does not need the money, then he has merely made a mistake and hopefully he has other funds to cover up for his mistake of overallocating into bitcoin. If he purposefully invests into bitcoin with money he needs or he is sloppy about it, as you seem to be suggesting with your example, then yeah, the guys is likely engaging in a form of trading or gambling rather than investing, even if he might have labeled what he was doing as investing he had mislabelled it since he had not figured out (or he was sloppy about it) that the money that he was using was not really within his longer term disposable income and it was instead money that he needed for one thing or another.

Quote from: Lidger on Today at 06:46:19 AM

For example, that amount of money should be invested consistently that amount of money that is not needed in life. Those with strong willpower can overcome hundreds of challenges and hold on to their investment to the end.

I doubt that fucking up with finances (or not fucking up) is merely a matter of having strong willpower, since anyone who puts better cash flow management practices in place (or works on the creation of strong cashflow management practices while simultaneously investing into bitcoin), such person is going to have more abilities to deal with fluctuations in his income or expenses or even to deal with mistakes that any of us might make from time to time in terms of our bitcoin purchases or other ways that we are planning to cover our various expenses. In other words, if good (or great) systems are in place, then psychological preparation will follow from the putting into place strong cashflow management practices.

Quote from: betswift on Today at 07:23:04 AM

Quote from: Btcdeybodi on Today at 06:59:05 AM

[edited out]
I do think that it's everybody's choice what to mark as an investment or a long-term trading. According to Google search, it's one thing, according to you or JayJuan - it's completely different, with different mentality behind it implemented. You must agree that nowadays most people come into crypto, as in many other spheres, to get the basic idea of it and start making money, either by themselves, with the info provided for them, or by getting into the projects related to the info provided by the sources. It's neither good nor bad, it's just how it is. It's the reason why some people leave crypto and why some of them start learning more about it.

We are not talking about either crypto or trading in this thread.. or even the idea of what makes normies motivated to make money, if they come into bitcoin or into crypto (or shitcoins) with some motivation to make money.. sure we can acknowledge that the money making dynamic or even number go up technology of bitcoin is what motivates a decent number if not an overwhelming majority to first get started in paying attention to bitcoin, but going down those kinds of trading and/or motivation and/or shitcoin paths still seems deviate us from the actual topic of this thread.. which largely relates to investing, bitcoin and considering various dynamics in regards to how to accumulate BTC.. especially for a lot of newbies that might come to this thread or come to bitcoin... so fuck trading and/or shitcoins, even though we can appreciate that a lot of newbie normies are lured into those directions, and our attempts to stay focus on the topic of this thread or the main focus of this thread allows a large number of us to recognize and appreciate that a decent amount of value comes to the thread when we screen out those kinds of deviations from the main topic.. so that we do not lose focus, even though surely we can screen out those kinds of deviations and still recognize and appreciate that a lot of newbie normies likely make the errors of not being able to focus on something like bitcoin and an attempt at a long term investment approach.

Yeah, do what you like with those other shitcoin and trading topics or the ideas that a lot of newbie normies are attracted to such likely nonsense, and hopefully take those topics to some other thread (or create your own thread) rather pushing them in this bitcoin/investing focused thread.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 07:59:02 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:21:02 AM

Yes, don't get me wrong, it is way better that various candidates, including Trump, are speaking positively about bitcoin and potentially seeming to contribute towards various other influential people to speak positively about bitcoin, and also bitcoin goes more and more into the public consciousness in such a way that we might end up with more bitcoin buying and more UPpity buying pressures, yet still even though there are possibilities that UPpity buying pressures contribute towards less likely downward BTC price movements, bitcoin prices are not just a result of one factor or a few factors, and I even have my doubts about political factors really clarifying various ambiguities to take away BTC price movement in both directions, including downity from time to time... from here? I am not even going to claim to know, even though you (Wind_FURY) seem to want to claim that you know... or that you have warm and fuzzy feelings about UP only of dee cornz from here on out, or whatever it is that you are wanting to say.

I'm not claiming to know either, ser. But such things will definitely give higher probability to UPpity than DOWNnity.

We already had higher probability of UPpity as compared to DOWNity, so you are adding a few more points to the UPpity side of the equation and removing a few more points from the side of the DOWNity side of the equation?

That sounds like a "BIG so what?" to me... but hey whatever, you continue being you... it is not like we need to agree in regards to our differing opinions in which it seems that each of us has already stated our thoughts on the topic.

Quote from: Nheer on Today at 11:08:05 AM

Quote from: Smartvirus on July 31, 2024, 10:23:23 PM

Quote from: sotelorene on July 31, 2024, 09:25:13 PM

The DCA method is really good no doubt but we can't really say is the best and most profitable way to Bitcoin investment rather it can be seen as the best for those who uses that method of accumulating Bitcoin do you think those great investors actually use the DCA method now? And even if they use it I am pretty sure that it will only be few of them if at all they use it any method one chooses is best for the person not for everybody perhaps you can say is the cheapest or easiest way to go about Bitcoin investment.

I would like to know th category of investors that you refer to as great investors.

I’ll agree with you however not on the term that the DCA method to building a Bitcoin portfolio isn’t the best but, the idea that the best form of investing is subjective to individual investors. I’ll give you 2 instances but before that, let me remind you that, Bitcoin is very volatile and extremely difficult to predict on its price movement.
With that on your mind, let’s get to the instances

Whale investors don’t need no prediction on what price they might buy in at, although, a couple of them do look at the charts but, it’s not always necessarily the dip. They understand the concept of hodling and they eventually does hold, not minding what’s going on in the market because, they know it would rise.

Small and inexperienced investors often don’t know how to go about predicting the market and even when they get the hang of it, they tend to wait too long to invest because, you don’t get to nail the dip accurately and that could lead to loss opportunities.

DCA ensures you’re not making no mistakes or procrastination, you don’t get to predict the price and no opportunity is lost. All you need is patience and some other stream of income to support your hodling and add to your portfolio using DCA.

Not sure the category he has in mind but he may be referring to whale investors or lump sum investors as great investors because of how much money they are capable on investing at once. The amount of money you invest doesn’t make a person great investor, every individual has different limits of how much they can invest at an instant which is not measured by the amount they earn. DCA strategy is very effective strategy utilized by various kinds of investors, yes most whale investors are not bothered about the price especially when they plan to hold for a long time. In addition to enabling investing with as little money as possible, the DCA strategy minimises opportunity loss by exposing you to a variety of market opportunities on a regular basis. It also lowers volatility risk, lessens emotional distress, and builds investor discipline.

These benefits are not limited to certain kinds of investors, both whale investors and small inexperienced investors are entitled to these benefits so you can see that DCA strategy can be effective for any kind of investor. Although every individual is entitled to choose an investment strategy that suits them better.

You seem to act like (or even to imply) that all investors have all options available to them, which truly might not be the case.

Some investors (whether whale or normie) do not necessarily have all options available to them, such as having something like a lump sum that is available to them. If a person does not have a lump sum available, then the most likely starting avenue is to employ DCA based on their incoming income (of course, separating out expenses and then taking from disposable income).

Even buying on dips requires having some amount of extra money available and then the employment of a choice to not deploy that money at current BTC prices, but instead to wait for some kind of an anticipated dip with that money rather than buying bitcoin right away with it. And, we already know that such anticipated dip may or may not end up happening.

DCA tends to allow to invest into bitcoin (or wherever else it might be used) as a means to invest with the money (income) as it comes in (or as it becomes determined that such money is available for investing rather than potentially being used for some other purpose such as expenses or some consumption choices or even to save for some other purpose).

Usually whales are going to have more options than normies, yet even whales might sometimes end up tying up their money in various kinds of ways to limit their options or to limit the feasibility of some options as compared with other options.. which sometimes the lack of options is merely a temporary condition and other times it may well be a condition that lasts for a long time, such as with a poor person who is barely scrambling to put together $10 per week to be able to invest into bitcoin. It could take the poor person many years, maybe even 10 years or longer to bujild his own financial (and psychological) situation up to such levels that he ends up recognizing that he has more options besides just DCA... and just because poor people might ONLY have DCA as an option, that still does not mean that DCA is any kind of an inferior option, even though surely there are trade offs, even with DCA that a person who has other options may or may not end up choosing DCA over other options (when talking about accumulation we would mean buying on dips and/or lump sum buying to be the other buying/accumulating options) that he considers that might be preferred to his own then circumstances.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 12:37:05 PM

Quote from: Popkon6 on July 31, 2024, 11:06:37 PM

Although currently there is a massive dip in the Bitcoin market, as Bitcoin reached $70k, from where it has touched $64k.
This is the gap that is created and the most success is possible if you buy the dip according to this gap.

success is not measured in buying the dip by gap, surely if a person buys the dip simply because of the gap, it means you are indirectly saying you are trading and that is a form of gambling which is not advisable. buying and HODLing for long is more important than checking the gap of bitcoin price either high or low

Quote from: Popkon6 on July 31, 2024, 11:06:37 PM

So every investor needs to have a separate fund in his investment list to buy bitcoin dips, and continue to invest in regular DCA method with other funds.

it is called discretion or reserved or floats

I that context, Popkon6 seems to be referring to keeping some kind of reserve fund that would have a purpose of buying on dips.

Discretionary (or disposable) income is the difference between the income and the expenses, so really discretionary/disposable income can be spent on anything including on bitcoin investing or on anything the person would like, such as hookers, lambos and blow.. Sometimes we will measure discretionary/disposable income monthly or whenever a person might get paid, and many times there are several kinds of bills that might be monthly, so frequently it is more convenient to measure discretionary/disposable income on a monthly basis.

If there might be various kinds of disposable income that is held over into the next month or into subsequent months then that could be considered as reserves and reserves could be tagged with various purposes or even kept in general kinds of ways and surely a building up of a kind of long term reserves that are never to be spent except upon true emergencies, then that could be labeled as emergency funds, and many times it is recommended to have at least 3 months of emergency funds, yet of course folks will play their emergency funds in various kinds of ways.. yet sometimes they could end up getting into a pickle if they don't have enough emergency funds and especially if they might have had placed a high prioritiy to making sure that they don't sell their investment (in this case bitcoin) at a time that is anything other than their own complete choosing, so it could end up being quite tragic if a person had been building up his bitcoin holdings for many years and then end up getting forced to sell some or all of it at the bottom of the market because he had failed/refused to establish an emergency fund.

I usually would consider the float amounts of cash to be some extra cash that might be held within monthly periods or between paychecks and/or expenses in a kind of way in which sometimes there might be uncertainties in the amount of income or the expenses, and so floats might give cash cushions within the month including potentially covering some errors in calculations that might exist between pay periods or expenses. Some level of floating funds might exist at all or most times, yet maybe sometimes float fund levels would be at or close to zero right before income comes... depending on various personal preferences in regards to how much extra cash a person might have on hand and how that person chooses to categorize such extra cash that he has "floating" around in his various accounts or maybe in his wallet or under his mattress or in the counsel of his car/motorcycle.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 12:37:05 PM

Quote from: Lidger on Today at 06:46:19 AM

Quote from: Popkon6 on July 31, 2024, 11:06:37 PM

snip

An investor who starts investing for the first time invests with a plan to hold his investment for a long period of time.

Not all investors that has a long term plan. some have short time plan which I have corrected @pokon6 from the above sentence.

Long versus short are likely somewhat vague categories... especially when it comes to investing. We frequently talk about for our buying of bitcoin to even count as investing then it has to be at least 4 years (or a whole cycle) otherwise it is trading or gambling rather than investing.. so yeah, some folks will likely refer to periods of less than 4 years as investing and then try to distinguish those as short term, which to me just seems like a perversion of the term investing.. especially when it comes to bitcoin. Other kinds of investing or assets likely have dynamics that may well allow them to be categorized differently than bitcoin in terms of how to differentiate investing versus trading or long term versus short term investing.

Maybe in bitcoin we might suggest that if we are shooting to get to fuck you status then that would be long term, and if we are shooting to get to some interim goal that is something less than fuck yoiu status then that would be short term investing... but still it would have to have a time line of greater than 4 years to count as investing rather than trading.

These are the kinds of terms that reasonable people can have differing definitions, and sometimes it is better to define our terms when we are speaking with people who might define the terms differently in order that we can attempt to get to the substance of the matter rather than potentially arguing about largely non-substative matters.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 12:37:05 PM

Quote from: Lidger on Today at 06:46:19 AM

Investing with such a plan and working according to that plan is very difficult in reality. After investing many challenges come in front of us that after overcoming the challenges it is difficult to retain the investment and maintain the continuity of the investment.

I believe if you read this 9 principle individual factors that influence your decision by JJG you will understand the factors and things that you should consider before investing in oder not to invest and put yourself in a tight corner. investing require to have a set target of the amount of btc to accumulate. before starting you must know your financial strength. that is You must have other source income that will help you achieve your target, from your source of income you will divide it in a way that it will not affect you. by setting aside emergency fund, feeding, investment into btc and setting aside discretion fund to help you keep buying DCA every week and buying the dip so surely if you don have a well planned strategy you will surely not going to be able to invest consistently. you can look in the JJG 9 individual factor that affect your bitcoin decision to improve yourself.

Mostly, I don't have any objections in regards to how you described some of our objectives and/or our considerations in regards to investing into bitcoin, yet I am a bit concerned about any implication that any of us would need to plan our investment strategy prior to getting started. It seems to me that we can plan and employ and learn at the same time while attempting to employ common sense in regards to making sure that we are not investing into bitcoin (or otherwise spending) more than we make.. yet it still can take several years to really build our finances, cash management and even our ongoing allocations into bitcoin into solid practices, since in the beginning we may well need to be more conservative in our investments into bitcoin and our management of our cashflows so that we do not end up overly investing into bitcoin merely because we might feel that we are in a hurry or that we are devolving into sloppiness in our own ways of planning, employing strategies and learning how to invest into bitcoin while attempting to set good systems in place to reasonably manage our cash flows.

Quote from: laijsica on Today at 05:33:15 PM

Quote from: Roseline492 on Today at 11:24:59 AM

The reason for DCA strategy is not for profit so don't be confused about that because I noticed that most people have been having a misconception about the purpose of DCA because I have also seen that most people think that DCA strategy guarantees a successful investment, actually DCA is just a normal strategy and utilizing it in terms of accumulating Bitcoin depends on individual or the investors also in terms of profits is actually depends how far you have accumulated on your investment that determines it because there are people who can use DCA strategy but could not still see any good return after holding because they failed to continue there investment.

I don't agree with you. DCA strategy is for investors to take profits and that should be uninterrupted for long term through regular investments (buy). This is an ideal method for people of any income where people can accumulate bitcoin regularly keeping in line with his income so there is no scope for confusion with DCA. DCA strategy is chosen by people for depositing bitcoins because depositing for a long time and taking it to a desired point so that he can get huge profit. Although he can also choose to keep holdings for future generations and valuable bitcoins alongside traditional assets. A Bitcoin depositor tends to keep depositing for a long time which can be at least 4-10 years or more. Continue with DCA strategy for long term to diversify your portfolio which is what your better return should come.

You might not be wrong in your overall points laijsica, but you surely express your points in very confusing ways... especially since if you are investing into bitcoin (rather than trading) there should be no reason to get overly focused on whether you are in profits or not.

DCA allows anyone to figure out how much BTC to buy each week (or whatever other regular period that he buys his BTC), and so within DCA you can be aggressive or conservative and you can also combine DCA with other strategies such as lump sum and buying on dips... or even HODL, if you run out of money to buy from time to time.

Even a person with a 4-10 year or longer investment strategy, he might have to reassess from time to time or to tweak his strategy whether he is investing somewhat passively and potentially not very aggressively or if he might be more aggressive with his BTC accumulation approach.

There might be some point in which the BTC accumulator might start to assess that he had largely accumulated enough BTC. or that he can focus less on BTC accumulation, so there could be questions about whether he might go into a maintenance mode or a liquidation mode. It does not really make a lot of sense, in regards to investing to go into a liquidation mode, so maintenance mode seems more like an investment approach, even though guys likely have their various perceptions in terms of perhaps transitioning into some kind of a stage that has price-based or time based withdrawals (perhaps withdrawing in a sustainable way, if investment continues to be the preference).

Quote from: Obim34 on Today at 05:54:35 PM

Quote from: Roseline492 on Today at 11:24:59 AM

[edited out]

I barely understand what you mean in this context, there should have been no need contradicting yourself all along. If the DCA is used to accumulate Bitcoin, and we know Bitcoin as an investment which comes with good tidings (profits) why then do you think DCA isn't for the profits. The DCA is a strategy, same with Lump sum and Buying Dips and whereas they all drive us into accumulating Bitcoin then which other do we say is for generating those profits.

Successively accumulating Bitcoin during intervals is beneficial to the investor because he gets to buy Bitcoin at different price level confidently without considering whether the market is at it's lowest DIP or not. Moreover, whether we DCA, Lump sum or choose to Buy Dips it all pressure on us that we must hold in other to make good profits, no strategy has a cut privileges of escaping holding.

Even though you are correct that we would like our BTC holdings to ultimately be in profits, with DCA and long term investing (and even accumulating BTC in those other ways), there is no need to be manaically focused on profits like a trade would.

If you already assessed bitcoin to be a good investment with decently good fundamentals, you likely are going to presume that in the long term bitcoin is likely to be in profits (even though the profits are not guaranteed), so your having had come to an assessment that bitcoin is likely to be a good long term investment, you invest into it an you determine your position size based on various aspects of you personal financial/psychological circumstances.. which also might deal with how long it might take you to establish your position.. including that if it takes you 4-10 years or longer to establish your position, you also would likely have to reassess your approach and your position from time to time, since bitcoin remains a moving target and how you evaluate your position likely would need to be adjusted or evolve based on changes that might happen between the time that you started your investment into bitcoin and various points later down the road.