Quote from: betswift on Today at 06:04:12 AM

Quote from: $crypto$ on August 05, 2024, 06:58:16 PM

Quote from: ultrloa on August 05, 2024, 01:16:07 PM

Now I'm curious to know the sentiments of other people waiting for the dip if they are really accumulating at this situation. Fear towards more dumps provably spreading and if we could see lots of statements saying that they wanna buy more because they already see a perfect opportunity which they are waiting.

Some got panic in this situation since we can't deny that this current dump can really bother us especially if we look our portfolio.

So what's best for now is to continue their accumulation and just ignore the panic done by lots of people. If they can accumulate that's good since for sure that those dump is just temporary and they might struggle to see bitcoin touch at $50k level again if bitcoin price recover.

What are you prepared with reserve funds to buy now it is time for DIP because bitcoin has fallen 20%, if there is no then continue weekly accumulation maybe that's the best way for middle people like us.

Who doesn't panic, everyone will panic seeing their portfolio falling deep, but then again investors the goal is not now this is not the end of everything, surviving will be better even the 4-year plan for hodl is still long then it can be to get through the current situation.

What is panicking now is that traders are going "long".
An investor will remain safe, will not be liquidated if he does not sell.
Hold on! Buy now.

Great words, I do think we are going to see some dips in the near future (because of the geopolitics, US news about the job market (we already felt that, but there can be more to it), and much more, the elections aren't done yet as well),

One of the most predictable things in bitcoin is that it is going to be volatile in the future. So by definition, volatility includes both price dips and price rises, and another thing about bitcoin's volatility in particular is that none of us can really know in advance its direction, yet we might be able to try to consider whether its odds for going up are greater than its odds for going down, and to figure out our BTC investment approach and our investment size (including our accumulation approach if we are in such a stage) in accordance with our anticipations regarding its overall price direction.

Part of the advantage of having a longer time investment horizon is to not necessarily get caught up upon either short-term BTC price moves or trying to figure out various news events that might affect short-term BTC price moves, including that likely little of what you had proclaimed as supposedly important in regards to the strength of bitcoin's investment thesis are even close to being very important, except to maybe show various pieces of evidence regarding the desperation and/or peril of various traditional investment systems in regards to what seems to be bitcoin's place within that.

Quote from: betswift on Today at 06:04:12 AM

and this should be seen as an opportunity, for all people involved.

What do you mean?

Largely, in this thread we are talking about long term approaches to investing into bitcoin, so why does it really matter very much if the BTC price goes down a bit rather than up or sideways, especially if our investment timeline is relatively longer rather than shorter. Do you think that great differences happen merely because BTC's price dipped lower than expected? Seems like a BIG so what to me, especially for longer term investors who likely have investment time horizons for 4-10 years or longer.

Quote from: betswift on Today at 06:04:12 AM

Spot will lead the way, in my opinion, and the red I am seeing now won't stop me and my course of action. It's our nature to panic when the ship starts shaking, however, those who are brave enough and go with the sea waves enjoy their place under the sun.

The timing of your post seems a bit off in regards to whatever supposed pep-talk you are making. A lot of the red arleady happened, so then there might be some questions whether the bottom is in or not, and yeah, the BTC price is still around $10k less expensive than it was about a week ago.. so yeah, I am not going to disagree that there can be some advantages in terms of buying now relative to last week, but still, many BTC investors do not have truckloads of cash lying around that they can now decide to employ.. so there likely needs to be some attempts to talk about scenarios that are realistic rather than coming off as some kind of a degenerative gambler (or trader) who might be trying to play these price waves, when surely this thread really not considering trading to be a reasonable investment technique, and maybe even moreso in an asset that seems to be so great, like bitcoin.

Quote from: Popkon6 on Today at 07:34:00 AM

Quote from: betswift on Today at 06:04:12 AM

[ edited out]

Because there have been several dumpings this season and the dumping at the beginning of August may be the last dumping in the Bitcoin market. Because we only invest for the long term, the more we invest in the DCA method, the more portfolio we can grow. Because many people cannot buy bitcoins together due to financial problems, DCA method is most convenient for them.

You are not really wrong with anything that you are saying Popkon6, yet I think that it is worth it to point out that dumps in bitcoin can happen at any time, and there is a decently large quantity of examples in which the BTC price dumped 30% to 50% or more in a relatively quick timeline, even in the midst of a bullrun that might result in the overall BTC spot price rising several multiples and/or even several magnitudes in a relatively short period of time. So there can be and likely will be plenty of more dumps, whether such dumps happen prior to our going up right now, or prior to our reaching another ATH or at various other times in the near future, whether in this calendar year or in 2025 - and another thing is that we cannot even be guaranteed that we are going to have further UPpity BTC prices from here, whether we are referring to this year or 2025.. so yeah, we might have an investment thesis in which we consider that there are decently good chances that BTC prices are going up from here in 2024 and even higher in 2025, yet none of that is guaranteed, even if those are likely amongst the strongest of likely scenarios. Merely having strong likelihood does not cause the most likely scenario to become guaranteed.

Quote from: betswift on Today at 07:43:57 AM

Quote from: Popkon6 on Today at 07:34:00 AM

[edited out]

Yeah, with it, we try to minimize the impact of volatility change, by dividing our funds into smaller sums, so I may agree with you. We shall see how much our portfolios will feel the impact of it, though Wink

I am not really sure what you mean by dividing our funds into smaller sums in what seems to be the context of poor folks.

From my point of view, there comes to be points in which it is not very practical to divide funds into smaller sums, so you may well be caught a bit in a fantasy if you believe that everyone can apply all of the same tactics and the solution is for poor people to do the same thing, but just to divide what they are doing into smaller sums.

If you were merely referring to DCA'ing then perhaps I would kind of agree with you, yet in recent times, there seem to be so many forum members (including you) coming out with posts that argue some level of greater aggressiveness for buying dips, which causes me to conclude that some of the folks who are speculating (or presuming) that poor people should be fucking around with trying to buy dips rather than making sure that they got their shit together (with fairly solid practices) in regards to DCAing and cashflow management. DCAing and the employment of good cashflow management can be very powerful tools when it comes to investing - especially if the investment is bitcoin... and my saying such a thing should not contribute to any presumption that I am proclaiming bitcoin as being a guaranteed profitable investment.

Quote from: KeenanEl19 on Today at 08:40:46 AM

..... but with those who have run BTC assets especially with those who experience MC of course this is a bad moment for them. there are advantages and disadvantages in this incident and it cannot be ascertained which one is more happening. ...

What is "MC"?

Holy shit. Any guys who use acronyms should make clear that the acronym is known. Usually the better practice is to say what it is (especially the first time that it is used in a post), unless it is a commonly used and widely known acronym..

Quote from: betswift on Today at 09:10:45 AM

Quote from: KeenanEl19 on Today at 08:40:46 AM

[edited out]

You did repeat yourself a bit at the end of the post, but I agree. Some are fortunate because of the dip, some - are not so much. In the end, the situation is both good and bad for different people, but we should use it to our advantage as much as possible, going both in spot and futures, thinking about how it can be worked around.

Oh gawd... Roll Eyes

Now you are referring to futures? as if any of us should understand or be considering how to employ various financial instruments, including but not limited to "futures" as if such things were an appropriate discussion point for this thread.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 12:53:53 PM

Quote from: avp2306 on Today at 10:56:03 AM

Quote from: $crypto$ on August 05, 2024, 06:58:16 PM

Quote from: ultrloa on August 05, 2024, 01:16:07 PM

Now I'm curious to know the sentiments of other people waiting for the dip if they are really accumulating at this situation. Fear towards more dumps provably spreading and if we could see lots of statements saying that they wanna buy more because they already see a perfect opportunity which they are waiting.

Some got panic in this situation since we can't deny that this current dump can really bother us especially if we look our portfolio.

So what's best for now is to continue their accumulation and just ignore the panic done by lots of people. If they can accumulate that's good since for sure that those dump is just temporary and they might struggle to see bitcoin touch at $50k level again if bitcoin price recover.

Who doesn't panic, everyone will panic seeing their portfolio falling deep, but then again investors the goal is not now this is not the end of everything, surviving will be better even the 4-year plan for hodl is still long then it can be to get through the current situation.

What is panicking now is that traders are going "long".
An investor will remain safe, will not be liquidated if he does not sell.
Hold on! Buy now.

Actually not everyone got panic in this situation since we able to see that bitcoin price slowly recovering this scenario give relief to people who know that this events really happen. Maybe those people who got panic are in trading, But usually those people who decide to hold their bitcoin somehow find a good opportunity to increase their holdings by buying bitcoins at bargain price.

But we can't really deny the fact that there are people crying for help because they are liquidated. This scenario is somehow a wake up call for people that trading is really risky option to do especially if they don't know how to handle well the situation currently occur. If they just decide to hold for sure this current dump will not give them much stress. But seems lots of them likes to play fire that's why some of them got burned when bearish condition occur.

You joined the forum during 2014, and learned about Bitcoin before me. If you bought the DIP and HODLed and/or DCAed since 2014, then your average purchasing price would be very VERY low so mini-crashes going to $40,000 or back down to $20,000 would never cause you any panic.

Personally, I have my doubts that the mere fact that a person who presumptively has been in bitcoin longer and presumptively accumulated a decent amount of BTC at lower prices would not necessarily panic during various extreme BTC price dips.

Sure, there should be more systems in place that contribute towards longer time bitcoiners to figure out how to manage their bitcoin portfolio and other parts of their cashflow, yet I think that from time to time, some of the longer time bitcoiners do panic and make decently sized mistakes with some or all of their BTC holdings, yet many times, the longer term bitcoins will not be very likely to be playing around with large portions of their BTC holdings, so if they make mistakes, such mistakes would more likely involve less than majority portions of their BTC holdings rather than more than majority of their BTC holdings.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 12:53:53 PM

But for those who have NOT started their accumulation process, START TODAY, and study everything about Bitcoin while accumulating.

This is a very agreeable statement, and good to reiterate and emphasize, as you did.

Quote from: Roseline492 on Today at 01:58:58 PM

Quote from: betswift on Today at 07:43:57 AM

Quote from: Popkon6 on Today at 07:34:00 AM

Our most positive point is that there is a peak bull market in 2025 which we can currently experience, before reaching this bull market there will be a lot of shaking which is happening now. So the DCA method plays a different role to keep yourself on the right path.

Because there have been several dumpings this season and the dumping at the beginning of August may be the last dumping in the Bitcoin market. Because we only invest for the long term, the more we invest in the DCA method, the more portfolio we can grow. Because many people cannot buy bitcoins together due to financial problems, DCA method is most convenient for them.

Yeah, with it, we try to minimize the impact of volatility change, by dividing our funds into smaller sums, so I may agree with you. We shall see how much our portfolios will feel the impact of it, though

DCA has nothing to do with minimizing the impact of volatility in the price of Bitcoin, so don't get it wrong because when we talk about volatility is the nature of Bitcoin and is also inevitable so long as the price is concerned, so we did not go into DCA because of minimizing it but instead we choose DCA because is a good method for long term holders to go through.

Even though I merited your post Roseline492, DCA does help with minimizing the impact of volatility (Sim_card seems to also touch on the advantages of DCA in terms of lessening the impact of volatility, yet he also gets into some additional areas of discussion in regards to combining DCA with lump sum buying.. which almost seems like DCAing the way that Sim_card provided his lump summing example to use all of the newly found cash to buy BTC right away with all of it.. hahahahaha).. so I am not sure why you want to contest that kind of an assertion about DCA. Surely, your own point about DCA is correct too, and DCA not only is a good method to accumulate bitcoin, especially for long term HODLers, the DCA approach allows quite a bit of tailorizing within the parameters of what any BTC accumulator considers to be acceptable spending amounts within his discretionary income, so the BTC can tailor his DCA to be whimpy or aggressive or some variation of the two and can even change his level of whimpiness and/or aggressiveness in accordance with his own changes in preferences (sure he might screw up his levels of DCA based on such tailoring, but DCA gives any newbie or even experienced BTC accumulator a lot of flexibility within his chosen employment of such DCAing practices) and he can even have differing beliefs in regards to what DCA is accomplishing for him, and still end up getting to a similar place with his employment of DCA as compared with someone with differing beliefs about why they are choosing to DCA into BTC.

Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 03:17:42 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:28:02 AM

[edited out]

Getting worried about the price of Bitcoin should be for people who has been accumulating Bitcoin for 5 to 10 years and not people who just started, the reason why some people who just started Bitcoin investment always get tired very quick is because they are very much concern about the price of Bitcoin.
And I don't think knowing if you have accumulated enough is a problem, before starting your Bitcoin investment you should have a target, which are how much will I be investing on Bitcoin weekly or monthly, when will I become aggressive in my Bitcoin accumulation, what do I need to do to protect my Bitcoin so I won't dip hands into it and how many years will I accumulate and hold.
If you know all this I don't think you will have a problem in knowing if you have accumulated enough for yourself and mind you what will be enough for me may not be for you that's why you need to discover it yourself.

I mostly agree with you here SuperBitMan - even though it seems to me that you are placing a bit too much emphasis on some kind of a presumption that you are going to know where the BTC price is going in the future and/or also in regards to what the macro-economic conditions are going to be 5-10 years or more down the road when you might start to consider that you have reached or are close to reaching the goals that you had outlined for yourself towards the beginning of your bitcoin investment journey.

So, the main way that I would differ from your stated assessment would be that I would leave a wee bit more room for anyone coming into bitcoin to expect that he is going to need to make quite a few assessments and reassessments along the way both in terms of whether his initial goals and parameters were realistic and/or the extent to which some of the measuring sticks might have been altered (or inadvertently changed) after he had started his investment. Surely there could be ways that guys might attempt to measure in real world needs and assets (such as properties or food, energy, transportation and/or housing) or in discretionary consumption goods (such as hookers, lambos and blow), yet I think it would be problematic to get overly arrogant in terms of believing that newbie investors into bitcoin (whether already experienced investors or not) are going to have enough knowledge to be able to precisely set his various goals from the start.. even his life circumstances (including his health) could end up contributing to surprise (maybe not completely unexpected) needs to make changes to the goals.

Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 03:17:42 PM

If you don't have a source of income I don't think is good to start Bitcoin investment, some people usually start and along the line they run out of cash, before starting a Bitcoin investment have a source of income without having a source of income you can't succeed in Bitcoin investment.

That seems to be mostly true, yet there could be ways to have various amounts of reserves in place that allows someone to invest into bitcoin with an expectation of future income, but yeah, the overall idea is correct that investment is only possible (and not a form of gambling) if it is based on discretionary income rather than based on funds that may well be needed to cover expenses at some point of the 4-ish year or longer investment time horizon..

Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 03:17:42 PM

And I really don't like waiting for the dip before buying Bitcoin I think using the DCA strategy is more better, some people feels they could only accumulate more during the dip but the question is what if there's no dip for months.

Especially true for beginners or for anyone who had not already accumulated a decent amount of BTC. Waiting for the dip seems to mostly be a reasonable practice if it is employed by someone who had already accumulated a decent amount of BTC to already be sufficiently/adequately prepared for up, whether that had been by lump sum buying or maybe other forms of front-loading their earlier BTC buys.

Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 03:17:42 PM

For me I think being consistent with the DCA strategy and also having savings is the best, when you have savings you can use it to accumulate more when ever there's a dip.

Fair enough. It seems that in this thread we have been frequently trying to conceptualize the various kinds of savings that we have as forms of back up funds that might fit in categories of emergency funds, reserve funds and float.. . but yeah, savings is a more general way to refer to the same idea... yet if push comes to shove, it can become more useful to have had created systems that more specifically categorize funds rather than just generally referring to your backup funds as savings (even though a very similar idea is contained within the concept of savings).

Quote from: MainIbem on Today at 03:59:42 PM

Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 03:17:42 PM

[edited out]

@SuperBitMan, the price of Bitcoin shouldn't be a problem for an old time investor that's invested for about 5 to 10 years cause they should've already been aware of volatility and have encountered several dips and upsurge so I don't think your first statement is clear enough, cause newbies are the ones who should be more worried about any slight dip giving that they're not very familiar with the market and would easily give up holding if there's no motivation from anyone. However, to any investor who falls under such category, here's a motivation for you, Microstrategy a multi billion company and one of the top holders of Bitcoin is thinking of acquiring more rather than selling, and they're considering using $2b of their shares to do that, my point is that if a big company is not frightened by the dip and see that as an opportunity to purchase more then every other investors thinking of long-term should learn and be motivated by that. Well I agree with your next statement that it's a wise decision for one to have a stable source of income before embarking on Bitcoin and the person mustn't be very wealthy to acquire bulk BTC but could embrace the DCA method and invest bit by bit depending on the strength of their income.

Surely Microstrategy (MSTR and Saylor) serve as decently good examples regarding how companies (and/or individuals) might continue to accumulate BTC in both good and bad times, yet surely individuals need to be careful in regards to the ways that they compare their own situations to MSTR.

I am not really sure how much I should go down the path of providing evidence regarding how MSTR/Saylor is likely not going to be a very good specific role model for a lot of individuals, even though surely we can consider that MSTR/Saylor is already using available cashflows, but they are also using fairly complicated financial tools to leverage (in a variety of fairly complicated collateralized ways), so an overwhelming majority of individuals are going to find themselves in much different positions regarding their ability assess their abilities to use collateralized financial tools, even though they might have some similar ways that they might assess their cashflows, but holy fucking shit, between around 2014 and 2020, I was largely recommending that newbies get into bitcoin with 1% to 10% of their investment portfolio (or their gross income); however, between 2020 and currently, my recommendation has largely transitioned into my largely recommending that newbies get into bitcoin with 5% to 25% of their investment portfolio (or their gross income)

---- and so since 2020 I consider that I have been recommending more aggressive ways for newbie normies to get into bitcoin that might not even necessarily be good for some newbies to consider my recommendations in terms of the level of aggressiveness that I have been recommending (and surely at the same time, everyone is responsible for their own investment choices too.. including if they are such a dumbass as to fail/refuse to get off zero).. but if they were to be going with Saylor's level of aggressiveness, they may well be going way beyond even my own seemingly aggressive recommendations, especially since Saylor's very first purchases with MSTR's treasury (in August 2020) was to jump into bitcoin by putting around 75% of it into bitcoin.. and he ONLY became more and more aggressive after that... almost like a degenerate gambler (even though surely his investing strategies are not necessarily as aggressive as they might seem if one actually accounts for the various ways that Saylor/MSTR has been backing up its BTC investments).

Quote from: EclipseXcrypto on Today at 06:54:14 PM

Right now in the market is a perfect time that reserved funds can be put to play by buying more to increase our accumulation because there is downturn in bitcoin price which we can buy at lower bitcoin Prices.

To me, it seems quite problematic to be thinking that there is any such thing as "perfect time," and many of us already recognize and appreciate the old maxim that time in the market is better than timing the market, which surely such time in the market maxim seems to apply to bitcoin.. but hey.. do what you like in terms of your fucking around with attempts at identifying "perfect" times.

Quote from: EclipseXcrypto on Today at 06:54:14 PM

Panicking is part of the system but we should have it mind that it is not beneficial to us for the long run, maintaining a long-term perspective helps to keep our faith by believing in the bigger picture and focus on the objectives of our investment aims despite the market fluctuations.

This part of your post is true.

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 09:24:44 PM

Quote from: Jewan420 on Today at 04:39:46 PM

Not only new investors, but all new and old investors should not sell during this dip in Bitcoin. While old investors are experienced in this matter, new investors panic at this time and exhaust their savings. My only advice to them is, you focus on regular savings rather than on price. If you think about buying without thinking about selling, this is the perfect time to buy. It is doubtful whether such a price will ever be found in the future. Maybe this is the last bearish at this ATH.

In situations like this, it is worth mentioning that we need a strong mentality when facing sudden market changes. Therefore, I always say to prepare yourself as best as possible before starting to invest in Bitcoin. This means that you have to be able to survive all the fud, drastic declines and also be able to fight the worries that surround your mind.

I like to say. Get the fuck started investing in bitcoin, and prepare as you go, including that the ONLY preparation that you need prior to investing into bitcoin is to figure out that you have a disposable income, and if you do, then you can get started. Now the devil is in the details regarding how much to invest, and how messed up your cashflow management (and psychology) might be, yet if you have a disposable income, then you have the prerequisites for getting started investing in bitcoin and you should be able to figure out the various other details along the way... hopefully you are not a dummy. I am not going to presume normal people to be dummies who are not able to figure out the extent to which they have a disposable income or not. If they cannot figure out if they have a disposable income or not or they make mistakes in terms of figuring out that part, then that's on them, and seems to be part of basic knowledge that I am going to presume that an overwhelming majority of normies already have.. even if there are a lot of dummies in the world, that's on them to figure out basics of whether they can start out with investing $10 per week into bitcoin, $100 per week or some other amount that is reasonable for their individual situation.

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 09:24:44 PM

Yes, even though they are still new, I am sure they have a strong mentality to continue if their target is long term.
This is also where we need reserve funds to buy aggressively, price movements will be difficult to predict and no analysis is 100% correct, so trust your decision to continue buying.

There is no need to engage in any kind of analysis beyond merely recognizing bitcoin as a good place to invest and figuring out whether they have a disposable income. Surely there is a bit of an implication that the investment would be for at least a whole cycle.. but not sure if any meaningful analysis need to be embarked upon in that direction prior to getting started.. even though surely, normie newbies should be able to figure out several of these basics in their earliest of times of sorting through why they are in bitcoin and why they are making sure that they are ongoingly, persistently and consistently employing BTC accumulation strategies, even if it might only be starting with $10-ish per week..

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 09:24:44 PM

Yes, even though we don't expect a decline to occur, the market can change in an instant. The point is, don't worry and continue buying gradually and also enter aggressively at lower prices.

In the beginning there is no reason to be more or less aggressive based on perceptions of BTC price changes, but yeah, at some point, newbies might conclude that there are various ways and reasons that they might want to change their level of aggressiveness based on a variety of factors that may or may not end up including their perceptions of whether the BTC price is low or not.

One thing that is likely more important for normie newbies is making sure that they stay alive..so even if they are getting started in their BTC investment as soon as possible, they likely need to ensure that they are starting out sufficiently conservative in order to assess that they are not employing tactics that may well lead to their not being able to stay in their BTC investment - yet staying alive should well be common sense that any normie or any normie newbie should already recognize and appreciate, so it seems almost too basic to be telling some normie newbie that one of his goals in terms of investing is to stay alive, so I am not going to presume that normie newbies don't already know that one of their most basic goals should be to stay alive.. that seems like too basic to even dwell upon having to teach someone..

Oh and by the way, I generally presume any normie newbie to be a mature adult, so yeah there are a lot of folks who get into bitcoin who are not mature adults, but that is also on them to figure out their own limitations in terms of their maturity level, and I am not going to presume that the mere fact that I am presenting information on the interwebs that normie newbies have all of a sudden turned into not mature not adults, even though surely there are readers of these kinds of threads who fall under such categories, so they are still going to have to figure out the extent to which they are able to manage their own immaturity and their non-adultness and even potentially their level of retardedness so that they do not end up recking themselves in the process.. but there is no way that any of us writing these kinds of suggestions about how to invest should take responsibility towards folks who have to either figure this stuff out for themselves or to get help to make sure that they have basic levels of maturity of an adult to be able to employ bitcoin accumulating techniques, and don't get me wrong, there surely might be some 10 to 12 year olds or even some other seemingly younger folks who are mature and smart, yet the younger that they are, the more likely that they are going to have maturity issues including potential problems to believe that they know more than they do... but that's on them to figure that shit out if they are participating in online forums... and I also don't believe in legislation to force the verification of age in order for people to read threads like this one..and personally I am not going to water down my own recommendations merely because there are non-adult non-mature folks reading posts like this one, they are still responsible for their own actions including if they might need to go ask their mom, dad or any other adult that they might have in their life that might be able to help them, and yeah there are some folks who are lacking in adult supervision or adults with whom they can consult, so they have to attempt to figure out on their own if they are getting in over their heads or if they might need to be a bit more humble about their level of knowledge and/or maturity to deal with investing in something like bitcoin.

Quote from: ginsan on Today at 09:24:44 PM

Point one, I don't care about price for now.
Point two, my focus is only on doing routine DCA every week.

These seem to be more than reasonable points, even if there is likely a decent amount of individuality that needs to apply towards anyone coming to such conclusions.