Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 06:58:49 AM

Quote from: ginsan on August 17, 2024, 08:57:28 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on August 16, 2024, 10:09:56 PM

~~The example that I gave might even have some room for the lump sum buyer to include some cushion in his decision to lump sum into bitcoin, and there likely is nothing even wrong with lump summing into bitcoin, but then at some point realizing that the BTC price is moving against him, so when he put in the lump sum, he may well realize that there is a possibility that the BTC price could be at a high point rather than having more immediate upside potential, but he still might know all of that and still decide to get in with the idea that he will just buy more if the BTC price goes down rather than up.. so in that sense, he either should be holding back a little bit of his lump sum amount or he already knows that he has an ability to continue to buy BTC in the future, in case the BTC price goes down instead of up.. so he has already built in a plan that the BTC price might go down rather than going up... but his lump sum prepares him for UP, and his continued ability to DCA and/or to buy on dips prepares him for down.. so he is actually prepared for both directions by lump summing in, even if he could have had gotten his lump sum purchase at a lower price (but no one knows the future BTC price, and that is part of the justification for his lump summing in at whatever price he had chosen to lump sum in... No one lump sums into any investment including BTC with a large expectation that it will be going down, even though they may well already account for that possibility).

Under such circumstances would an investor think that they are in good hands in the decisions they make?
Of course they will be wary of a reversal of direction if they have thought about it beforehand so that the steps they will take will certainly follow up with DCA if that happens.
I often think for those who have large capital, for example $10 million, they will easily implement a purchase plan at a cheap price point like last year when the price of bitcoin was below $30k.

Why do we need to bring up a person with large capital to potentially confuse matters.

A main difference with a person with large capital, such as the amount that you are suggesting is that he likely has more options because he is starting out with large capital that he might be able to invest in bitcoin, in the event that he has decided to allocate such capital (or part of such capital) to bitcoin.

If the person with large capital has not yet figured out bitcoin, then he is in a similar situation as any no coiner in terms of considering whether and how to invest in bitcoin once he figures out that he wants to buy bitcoin and once he figures out how much he wants to allocate, then he can figure between his various options in regards to how to get in.

If the guy with $10 million in capital does not want to liquidate or reallocate any of his capital toward bitcoin, then he may well be faced with figuring out how to deal with his cashflow and expenses, which are similar kinds of issues that others have, yet the fact that you ar mentioning his high level of capital causes me to consider that you believe that he has the ability to allocate into bitcoin with some or all of that capital.

Quote from: ginsan on August 17, 2024, 08:57:28 PM

But at the same time they didn't and what a mistake, but they executed this year at $60k.

There are folks getting into bitcoin all time, and they are doing it in various kinds of ways, yet at the same time, there are a lot of folks, even folks with a lot of capital and a lot of income who still are either not convinced about bitcoin or they might believe they might believe they are too late.

Sure, more and more rich folks are finding out about bitcoin, and considering it as an investment option, yet we still have a pretty level of adoption, even amongst rich people.

Quote from: ginsan on August 17, 2024, 08:57:28 PM

Even though it is their principle to execute now, if they did it last year of course they would get double the ownership compared to today's price.

Sure, you may well be presuming that since they might be able to do a lump sum, that they would do a lump sum investment style to get in, and that is not necessarily going to be the case. Some rich folks try to be careful about creating taxable events, so if they have to sell another asset in order to get into bitcoin, they might prefer to DCA into whatever they are adding rather than doing lump sum, yet surely they have to figure out their own reallocation and perhaps how much they might have in cash versus in assets that might create taxable events if they sell and reallocate into bitcoin.

Quote from: ginsan on August 17, 2024, 08:57:28 PM

However, maybe it was their mistake or at that time they were still not ready to do it.
I also see many big companies continuing to buy bitcoin when the price is rising, is that a good decision if they can wait for the low price to get more btc. In principle, sometimes investors don't dare to do it when they have the opportunity to execute at a cheap price. But they wait more and the days pass quickly when BTC has managed to turn things around and they regret not having made a purchase when the price fell.

Rich people are faced with the same dilemma as everyone else when they are new to an investment like bitcoin, and even if they have an opportutnity to completely invest right away with lump summing, they might choose to allocate some of that for buying on dips and/or DCAing, even if they might be DCAing with thousands or tens of thousands per week rather than lower amounts.

They also be a bit less price sensitive, and they might spread their DCAs out to be monthly or quarterly, yet they could potentially front load with a buy like buying $1million within a week or two...and then considering their DCA'ing and/or buying on dips from there. They might execute their own trades or they might give instructions regarding how to get their price exposure, maybe even ONLY recently learning about bitcoin from a Registered Investment Advisor (RIA) in terms of bitcoin coming available within their investment accounts (presumptively through some of the spot ETFs that are only recently getting added into some of the accounts that some rich folks might have.

Quote from: Egii Nna on August 17, 2024, 09:23:02 PM

Quote from: MusaPk on August 17, 2024, 06:34:38 PM

[edited out

st refer to Bitcoin historical price chart.

There is one thing that I want you to understand in bitcoin: no matter what when you are investing, that doesn’t mean that you will have nothing to you for your personal self, or that means you should not enjoy yourself. No, even though we all know that we need profit in bitcoin and we want the investment, we still have to invest the money that we can afford losing. That is the point, and if you restrict yourself from having all that you are already using just for the sake of investment, then what do you think will happen if someone happens to your investment? Even though we know that bitcoin is the number one trusted and reliable cryptocurrency to invest in without panicking about anything, that doesn’t mean you will always have a profit. Time will come that you will also lose, even though it is not much, but sometimes it tends to be much.

All I want you to understand is that when I invest in bitcoin, you should always know that you don’t have to break yourself or your bank to achieve that because you will end up selling to fix other problems, and from there, that has affected your investment for a long time, so let us know what we are doing in the crypto space.

First we are not talking about crypto and shitcoins in this thread, so if you were talking about investing into bitcoin, then it probably would be better for you to use the word bitcoin so we know what you are referring to.

Second, your points are fair in regards to guys making sure that they pace themselves in their investment into bitcoin, and anticipate ups and downs in the BTC price and the potential that their holdings might not be in profits in the first 4 years, and perhaps even longer than that or at various points after going through the first whole cycle of accumulating bitcoin.

i think that many guys participating in this thread are already presuming at least a 4 year investment horizon, and many are considering 4-10 years or longer, yet sure, even a long term investment horizon does not guarantee that the BTC holdings will be in profits, so guys have to make sure that they are investing an amount that they can afford to lose in regards to the possibility that the BTC holdings could go to zero, but also .. surely many of us consider bitcoin to be amongst the best if not the best place to be putting value, yet, we still have to invest within our discretionary income and have various back up funds and even attempting to make our cashflow management strong so that we do not have to sell bitcoin at a time that is anything other than our own choosing.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 05:37:30 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on August 15, 2024, 04:05:36 PM

[edited out]

👍
I'm not saying that you're wrong or that one investment strategy is better than the other. I was merely stating a point that if given an opportunity to purchase Bitcoin with a discount, big or small, they should always take it to get more units in Bitcoin than if they have purchased it without the discount. If the main strategy is a scheduled-DCA, sometimes it might be better to break the schedule to take advantage of the discount.

I had not been suggesting that anyone would be locked into any exact plan without any discretion, yet even though a newbie might want to lock himself into a strict and scheduled DCA plan for a specific amount of time, so then he might not end up having extra funds for buying extra during any dip that he might perceive.

On the other hand, depending on the newbie's financial status, it might not take very long for him to front load his BTC investment in such a way that he starts to feel that he has the luxury to hold some funds on the side for buying on dips.

I think that many of us in this thread appreciate that buying on dips is usually not a coming out of the gate strategy for accumulating BTC unless you have already bought some BTC or if you happen to come into BTC while the BTC price is falling (or not stable) yet an overwhelming majority of the time, no newbie (or even experienced) bitcoiner is going to have hardly any clue in regards to whether the bitcoin price is dipping or not or going to dip, so most times, the newbie is going to be better off by buying some bitcoin first, before even considering employing a buying on the dip strategy.

I think that many of us know that a no coiner or even low coiner should not be employing waiting strategies when it comes to first getting started in bitcoin, but once he bought some bitcoin (whether front loaded or not), he is going to have more luxuries to consider supplementing whatever had been his initial accumulation approach with buying the dip strategies.

Another thing is that guys, newbies, nocoiners can do whatever they like, even if they do dumb things like starting out their bitcoin investment journey by considering that they need to wait for a good entrance point, and personally, I consider that to be a dumb approach, even though each of us is free to do what we like, including dumb things. We are ultimately responsible for our own investment choices (including our choices to employ waiting as a BTC investment strategy), and also experiencing regrets, if we had happened to be sitting on a decent amount of extra cash last August/September/October and the BTC prices was bouncing in the $25ks to $27ks and we were waiting for more dip into the lower $20ks rather than using some of our extra cash to buy BTC at that time.. those are our own choices regarding how to employ our extra cash when we have it and if we believe that we are sufficiently prepared for UP while we are hoping for (or assigning high weights to our expectation for) more down..
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This is a very valid point, The focus should be on the general principles and considerations for investing in Bitcoin, regardless of the size of individual capital.

Investors with large capitals have the luxury of many options for investing in Bitcoin, but still need to decide how to allocate his capital,
All investors regardless of the size of their capital needs to manage their cash flow and expenses,