Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 07:49:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:08:43 AM

I hate to talk anyone away from bitcoin, but yeah sometimes bitcoin might not be so feasible for folks without any discretionary income or hardly any discretionary income when they might be able to increase their discretionary income in ways that potentially conflict with investing into bitcoin.

thought of investment mostly comes to mind when you're earning above what's needed for your monthly expenses and can reserve some portion for your investment goals and even set out some for any emergency that might spring up while you're yet investing. It's not about talking anybody out of investing in Bitcoin, if they don't even have this knowledge, they are certainly going to have a faulty start in Thier investment which will affect them and go on to disrupt them along the way when things isn't going the way they might have expected.

It's good to always create a balance and do some minor calculations on how profitable we can possible get to it we continue investing a particular small amount for a said period of time.

I was not talking about people not having sufficient knowledge to be able to invest into bitcoin, in response to pawel7777's post, I was talking about situations in which the discretionary income is lacking in sufficiency, so that efforts might be spent on building skills that allow for earning more income, and so that does not mean that they don't have knowledge and skills to know about bitcoin, they are just lacking in discretionary income so the skills, experiences and connections that they might need to work on building might need to relate to their being able to successfully build their discretionary income, whether they end up investing in bitcoin with their extra money or not as pawel7777 was suggesting, they might well end up in a better financial and psychological position when they increase their income earning circumstances.

It kind of reminds me when I first got into bitcoin in 2013 and even for several years thereafter, I recall that there were so many forum members emphasizing the various ways to get free bitcoin (like faucets and other things and even menial jobs), and I continued to emphasize that there may well be a lot of circumstances that the time spent searching for free bitcoin or ways to earn bitcoin could have had been way better spent in regards to earning fiat and buying bitcoin with the extra amounts of fiat that would be made through better use of their time... so I have never really been against buying bitcoin, even though I am not against earning bitcoin or getting it for free either, yet sometimes those bitcoin earning jobs are not very easy to come by and it may well not be worth it and also end up delaying the stacking of sats...

yet the point about earning income or even increasing the earning of income as pawel7777 seemed to have had been making might improve a persons life in a lot of ways, whether or not they stay involved in bitcoin, and surely I am all for getting into bitcoin and staying in bitcoin, yet sometimes people should be working on their skills, experiences and connections so that they are able to increase their chances of increasing their income so that they can buy bitcoin or whatever they are going to end up doing with their income.. and sure bitcoin could be and maybe should be a part of that, but there may also be circumstances in which improvement in income still could end up resulting in better life circumstances, whether bitcoin is involve in such future of that person or not.. and surely my argument would still be that bitcoin is still an added bonus that everyone should attempt to include, even if there are circumstances that increasing income is even more important in terms of that person's situation..

Quote from: Pi-network314159 on Today at 02:38:59 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:08:43 AM

Quote from: Popkon6 on August 20, 2024, 03:48:52 PM

Quote from: SuperBitMan on August 20, 2024, 11:41:36 AM

[edited out]

But now by investing bitcoins in DCA method I am able to consolidate the funds and convert it into bitcoins, from here my future will go far and I will be self-sufficient. I invest between 5 and 9 dollars a week. My goal is that I try to keep my investment alive for several years.

I am glad that you are shooting towards buying BTC every week, and since your purchase amounts are so low, I hope that you have some kind of a system to make sure that your investment does not get eaten by transaction fees.

If you think about it, even after a year, your investment is ONLY going to be between about $260 to $520, yet I am not really poo-pooing the quantity in terms of you can ONLY do what you are able to do.. so you do the best that you can do.

You are right @jayjuanGee I thought as much too, despite we regularly talk about investing as little as we can, I think there is certainly a need to increase our investment in other not to spend majority on transaction fee since bitcoin is growing higher and becoming more expensive. It is possible that an investor who budget $5 a week on DCA can change his investment plan to $20 monthly to reduce his transaction fee or can decide to make it $15 in 2weeks in however way that can be ok because as time goes on btc will increase to an extent when $10 will not be even possible to invest due to high transaction fee.

I am not sure whether you exactly got my point since I am not merely referring to various kinds of present fees. Sure, we should be considering various kinds of current transaction fees, yet we should also be considering future transaction fees and UTXO management, so if we have a bunch of $5, $10 and $20 transactions, then we might get killed with fees if we try to spend those in the future......and a bunch of the low ones could either become unspendable or very expensive to spend.. so we end up thinking that we have thousands and thousands of dollars in value, but the fees could end up causing that value to be greatly diminished or even circumstances of close to zero if the UTXOs had become unspendable...so we end up with a false sense of our own wealth... another way that poor people could run the risk of getting screwed disproportionately to richer people. ..and I am not even proclaiming any conspiracy theory either since the design of the system creates such potential issues with UTXO management that become more problematic with historically small transactions... and the threshold of unspendable is frequently changing, even if there are likely also going to be changes in the future, but the changes could end up cutting in either direction in terms of how some UTXOs might become more spendable or less spendable depending on onchain transaction competition and/or tools that might be available to deal with the dynamics, including that there are some folks who might want fees to be higher too... a lot of knowables, unknowables and even quasi-knowables/unknowables.

I tried to not get specific with Popkon6 because I was not sure how he might have had been accumulating his BTC and/or managing his UTXOs, and sure we also do not necessarily want guys to get too specific in terms of potentially jeopardizing their OpSec... , yet if someone is using an exchange, they can buy small amounts of BTC regularly, even weekly and even ONLY $5-$10 at a time and maybe there are few fees in either getting the fiat there or making the BTC purchase, and so maybe if they are ONLY buying small amounts of BTC each time, they might need to keep their money on the exchange until it reaches a certain higher level amount, perhaps even $500 or more in order to not end up getting stuck with a bunch of small UTXOs (and we can think about sizes in terms of satoshis too, whether we might consider something like 800k satoshis being the amount).. and sure these days onchain transaction fees are relatively low, but in the future if there might be onchain transaction fees that are way higher, then some UTXOs with smaller amounts of balances might become unspendable (even if we might presume the BTC price to continue to go up).

So we should be thinking in terms of present fees but also in terms of future fees and trying to engage in good UTXO management, and that can be a whole subject in itself.

Each guy is responsible for his situation and learning these kinds of things and has to look at where he is currently incurring fees and also to consider future onchain transaction fee possibilities, and hopefully not end up sticking himself with a bunch of small UTXOs merely because he had been too worried about keeping a few hundred dollars on exchanges, when the better thing to do might be to wait until the BTC balance on the exchange reaches a certain amount, whether calculating in dollars or calculating the number of sats, before transferring such BTC to a private wallet...

What is the minimum satoshi threshold when you are voluntarily making the transfer could differ from person to person.. whether you might consider your minimum to be 100k satoshis or 500k satoshis or 1 million satoshis or some other amount. ... I am personally gravitating towards 500k to 800k as minimums if I am transfering to myself, and sure there may also be times to transact with another person, so 500k satoshis might get cut in half and you still might end up giving another person some smaller amount of satoshis like 50k or 100k and then receiving the change from whatever BTC is left in the spent UTXO.

There also might be different considerations when you are receiving from someone else (where you might have less of a choice about the size of the UTXO.. and yeah the other side of that is your creating a UTXO for someone else by sending it to them and realizing that they are going to be stuck with the UTXO size that you are sending) as compared when you are voluntarily choosing how and when to create UTXOs that you are going to be receiving, so you have much more control when you are sending BTC to yourself or you are sending from one of your wallets and creating change for yourself..... sending from an exchange may well have different rules as compared with sending from one of your own wallets.

Coin control skills are also something that becomes important but is not available in all wallets and is not even available on exchange wallets, so when you are trying to engage in practices that attempts to make sure you don't put yourself with a bunch of small and potentially unspendable UTXOs, then you might want to pay attention or figure out what you are doing in terms of your UTXO management. The more we work with these matters and even learn about the UTXO management features of the wallets that we use (including the coin control feature), the more likely that we will be able to make sure that we have some management over the size of our UTXOs for the present and the future which could affect either our fees for the present and/or our fees and our privacy for the future.

If you think about it, there are a lot of possibilities, but if a poor person has been buying bitcoin for 10 years and transferring every week, then that could be 52 UTXOs per year and so 520 UTXOs over 10 years, and so if all of the UTXOs were small, then maybe fees could be high or low, and if they were all unspendable, then the person wasted 10 years investing and was not able to recover anything... There surely are trade-offs in regards to keeping value on exchanges, but sometimes there might be needs to have some variety of UTXO sizes, and sure poor people get screwed in a lot of ways, so they sometimes have to attempt to protect themselves and figure out ways to lessen the likelihood that they are going to get screwed in regards to the size of their UTXOs and how they are attempting to manage the value that they have been saving and accumulating... and in the end, they have to figure out the right balance in regards to how long to wait before transfering off of exchanges, since we likely realize that there are risks in regards to keeping value on exchanges (and with 3rd parties) too.