Quote from: Cryptoprincess101 on September 12, 2024, 07:27:49 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 12, 2024, 04:26:58 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on September 12, 2024, 10:25:24 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 10, 2024, 05:53:27 AM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on September 10, 2024, 05:41:39 AM

Quote from: Zackz5000 on September 08, 2024, 05:12:20 AM

[edited out]

This advice is not worth it, it has a focus/vision but lacks investment dynamism and safety, what is the ultimate goal of Bitcoin price moving up in multiples did not happen, what will be the fate of the investment? So you are wrong to have said we should disregard the price of Bitcoin, if we do that, what type of investor are we? No matter what you think of Bitcoin, you should always have your factor of safety, your investment safety should be your number one goal, and this is why you need the right risk management as you invest.

Tell me, where is the risk management if you do not consider the price of Bitcoin to plan the investment rightly? The DCA investment approach is certainly good as it would help you to average your earnings and risks, but it will be painful at the end of the day if you hardly gain anything from your investment strategy due to the inability of the asset to perform. This is why the price is key. You should also learn the market pattern to assist in speculation and know the right time for the investment (DCA or not).

You seem to either not understand what is DCA or you are purposefully convoluting DCA with ideas of trading.

I'm experienced in the world of trading and investing to know the difference between the two and the fact that our view didn't align doesn't make me less right. This is the same mistake you always make thinking I mistake trading for investing but still didn't change anything because I stand with what I wrote, it's my philosophy of investment and the DCA approach and is working for me. However, I suspect that you are static with the investment approaches, but I am not. I am flexible and dynamic, maybe you should soften things and vary them sometimes and you will discover enough working principles in investing that are not generally covered with what most people read or watch. You can be creative about it and twist it for more productivity.

You feel that I am more static, but you are not really saying anything in terms of whatever it is that you are suggesting, except that you believe that guys need to ready willing and able to trade, and there is no reason for me to agree with you about that.

Traders can do whatever they like, and find out if their techniques work or not as compared with a more straight-forward DCA approach.

Honestly I don't see you as someone who is being static here because you are actually sticking to what works for you and stood by it while @EarnOnVictor is actually combining the idea of trading and investing so if that actually works for him is fine but not by saying that you don't want to change your mind on something that works for you, i mean it will be unprofessional for someone to either leave what works for them and engage in a risky means of investing called trading or to combine the idea of trading and investing at same time.

Since this thread does not exclude presenting ideas of trading, it becomes fair game to talk about ideas of investing versus trading, yet frequently it can become quite difficult for any traders to suggest some systematic way to trade in such a way that it is going to be profitable to sell bitcoin either as a means to gain more bitcoin or as a means to increase performance of bitcoin holdings (potentially gaining fiat from the trading behaviors). I have no doubt that some traders will have success, yet part of my overall point is that the various trading strategies are not replicable in ways that ongoing buying techniques are replicable. . so in several ways, we can show that merely buying and holding bitcoin has been a profitable strategy and bitcoin has been amongst the best of investments, especially the longer the period of time that we might compare bitcoin to other possible investment assets. EarnOnVictor seems to be proclaiming that there are techniques that could be even more profitable than a pure buy and hold strategy, and sure that could be true, yet I have my doubts that it is worth it to put bitcoin at risk in order to improve upon bitcoin price performance that historically has already been good, and there is no reason to believe that bitcoin's investment thesis is weakening - even though EarnOnVictor claims bitcoin's investment thesis is weakening too in terms of bitcoin having lower upside performance possibilities as compared to bitcoin's historical performance. EarnOnVictor is not completely wrong in regards to bitcoin's growth curve likely tapering off, yet I still doubt that it is either worth the risk to sell BTC (or trade) or that the tapering off is so detrimental to BTC's performance to make it an inferior investment in terms of buy and hold, which seems to be another of the implications of his assertions.

Quote from: Cryptoprincess101 on September 12, 2024, 07:27:49 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 12, 2024, 04:26:58 PM

Each of us is free to tailor our approach to our situation, and if guys might have goals to accumulate BTC, yet they are engaging in selling BTC in order to accumulate BTC rather than mostly focusing on various buying techniques, that is their choice, as you seem to believe that selling BTC is a way to accumulate BTC, that is your choice to employ those kinds of smarter than everyone tactics, which I consider to be gambling and overly risk taking for an overwhelming majority of people to attempt to employ those kinds of more complicated techniques, yet they (and you too) are free to do whatever they (you) like, even mostly dumb and gambling things like that.

Sure everyone has the liberty to follow what they feel is better for them without trying to impose it on others who doesn't believe or buy the idea of following same path as you do, I can't even imagine how someone will accumulate an asset like Bitcoin and still think about trading it again within a short period of time. Don't know if they are still being doubtful about the price of Bitcoin reaching milestones in the future or they are afraid of market fluctuations and feels like investing for a long period of time may appear that they are wasting their time which on the contrary is not a waste of time.

Maybe I have been pushing back more on EarnOnVictor since he seems to be having these various kinds of seemingly sly ways of trying to suggest that DCA techniques can be improved upon by trading the known swings, which truly might be true, yet I doubt that it is a good idea for most regular people to be fucking around with trying to trade, especially if they have already concluded that they are fairly early in their BTC accumulation journey, and there are a lot of ways that people can screw up their whole BTC accumulation journey when they get distracted away from the employment of ongoing buying techniques and start to consider that they might be able to sell and buy back cheaper, which frequently contributes towards people losing on what should be a winning investment.

Quote from: Cryptoprincess101 on September 12, 2024, 07:27:49 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 12, 2024, 04:26:58 PM

When you are talking about and promoting your various selling and/or trading and/or smarter than everyone else mostly vague approaches to BTC in a thread like this, then you are like to get some push back, even if you proclaim that you know what you are doing (which I have no problem with that), yet you ongoingly tend to promote your vague ideas as if they were generally applicable, which there is no way that they could be when you are not exactly specifying what it is that you do, except for proclaiming that you are doing more of a smart DCA, which involves selling and attemping to play BTC price waves.

I think anyone going in contrary with the idea of investing more in Bitcoin with the DCA, and emphasizing more about trading Bitcoin should consider opening a new thread about such discussions maybe in the trading discussion board instead of bringing it up in a thread where investing and HODLing Bitcoin for long term goals is mostly being discussed.

Trading does not seem to be off topic in this particular thread.. even though trading versus investing is also not really the main focus of such a thread in which the thrust seems to be asking about the road to $100k, which surely can conjure up all kinds of ideas that could relate to either trading or investing.

Quote from: Cryptoprincess101 on September 12, 2024, 07:27:49 PM

This thread is captioned the road to $100k so I don't know if buying and trading Bitcoin will make us achieve that feet of reaching that milestone so I believe through buying and hodling can only make such milestones be achieved because as we buy and sell it affects the activity of Bitcoin in it's Market prices and either cause a static or a slow movement which can cause delays or inability of the price going towards our speculation of reaching $100k

Even your description acknowledges that the road to $100k can have a lot of perspectives that might even include questioning whether it will really happen or even questioning if it is an important milestone or not.

Quote from: Salahmu on September 12, 2024, 08:16:18 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on September 12, 2024, 10:25:24 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 10, 2024, 05:53:27 AM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on September 10, 2024, 05:41:39 AM

Quote from: Zackz5000 on September 08, 2024, 05:12:20 AM

[edited out]

This advice is not worth it, it has a focus/vision but lacks investment dynamism and safety, what is the ultimate goal of Bitcoin price moving up in multiples did not happen, what will be the fate of the investment? So you are wrong to have said we should disregard the price of Bitcoin, if we do that, what type of investor are we? No matter what you think of Bitcoin, you should always have your factor of safety, your investment safety should be your number one goal, and this is why you need the right risk management as you invest.

Tell me, where is the risk management if you do not consider the price of Bitcoin to plan the investment rightly? The DCA investment approach is certainly good as it would help you to average your earnings and risks, but it will be painful at the end of the day if you hardly gain anything from your investment strategy due to the inability of the asset to perform. This is why the price is key. You should also learn the market pattern to assist in speculation and know the right time for the investment (DCA or not).

You seem to either not understand what is DCA or you are purposefully convoluting DCA with ideas of trading.

I'm experienced in the world of trading and investing to know the difference between the two and the fact that our view didn't align doesn't make me less right. This is the same mistake you always make thinking I mistake trading for investing but still didn't change anything because I stand with what I wrote, it's my philosophy of investment and the DCA approach and is working for me.

Actually from your statement JayJuanGee was not wrong in what he was saying because your understanding or perception about DCA seem to be very different from the actual course and aside from that I can't even comprehend what you actually mean by "what if at the end the investors who use DCA end up not getting anything from there strategy, do you mean that DCA is not the right strategy?

Sure, EarnOnVictor is likely showing some of his inabilities to conceive of value in terms of holding onto bitcoin if fiat cannot be extracted from it, so in some sense, he is reflecting the values in which traders will frequently consider that they are profiting through the various dollars that they are extracting from the asset along the way, and surely they want to get back their principle too.

It could be that a trader does not necessarily want to tie up his capital for too long in any particular trade unless he sees it to be profitable, and so will have some difficulties recognizing value in regards to investing that ties up capital for a long period of time...so someone like EarnOnVictor will see even more value if he is able to extract dollar value several times on the up and down price moves, and maybe even extracting value in either direction, and so he is trying to describe such process as being easy and maybe even placing himself in smart person's group who is able to accomplish profits in ways that others are not recognizing and/or executing.

And, so yeah his buy and sell techniques might even be way more profitable more frequently than it is not, yet if BTC prices go from $53k to $58k and he extracts $1k in profits, he is happy, even if BTC prices end up going up to $74k and don't return to his sell prices. He will just reinvest at some point that he sees a dip and upside potential or perhaps find some other trade, and he might even end up missing out on large BTC upside moves, yet he does not consider them to be losses because he had extracted dollar value from several of them.

I have my doubts whether he or even guys like him outperform the DCAers or the other guys who are mostly just buying and holding, and so several of the BTC buyers/holders/long term investors made multiples and even magnitudes of profits in regards to their strategies, in part due to compounding value, yet frequently the traders are not coming even close to similar levels of profits as compared to bitcoiners who mostly errored on the side of accumulating (through buying only) and holding.

Quote from: Salahmu on September 12, 2024, 08:16:18 PM

Or are you actually trying to say that Your trading strategy is more better?, so perhaps this the reason why JayJuanGee responded that way because the statement is very complicated and complex to really understand the whole idea.

I doubt that EarnOnVictor's generally vague and smarter than everyone else statements are very replicable, so sure, he might actually have better profits than the average DCAer, but it still seems problematic to be selling trading as if it were some kind of a common sense and basic kind of an approach to bitcoin.

Quote from: Salahmu on September 12, 2024, 08:16:18 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on September 12, 2024, 10:25:24 AM

However, I suspect that you are static with the investment approaches, but I am not. I am flexible and dynamic, maybe you should soften things and vary them sometimes and you will discover enough working principles in investing that are not generally covered with what most people read or watch. You can be creative about it and twist it for more productivity.

Actually with the level of knowledge and how far I believe JayJuanGee has gone into Bitcoin investment he shouldn't be referred to have been using a static investment strategy and besides DCA is not even a static investment because it has no limitation of what you can invest so long as you are not going above your budget, secondly investment is not about using all the principles that comes your way but what is important is sticking to only what support your investment plan and DCA has not shown to be static investment in anyway.

It could well be that proclaiming DCA and/or my various discussion points about bitcoin as static is a kind of strawman fallacy, especially since I am not ONLY stuck on ONLY that approach, even though surely many of us recognize that DCA is a very powerful approach that can be very useful for beginner investors, and it even works well for advanced investors too, yet of course, some investors are going to have more tools available to them, especially if they have an ability to consider lump sum investing and also if they have a high level of discretionary income, then they are likely going to have more options too.

I mostly am open to all kinds of BTC buying techniques as a means to accumulate bitcoin, yet I think that one of my differences of opinions with EarnOnVictor is that either he does not really seem to consider accumulation of BTC to be a goal and/or if he does consider accumulation of BTC to be a goal, he considers that selling BTC from time to time can serve as a means to increase the quantity of bitcoin accumulated without necessarily having to invest more dollars in order to accomplish such increasing of the quantity of BTC accumulated.