Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:17:08 AM

I doubt that EarnOnVictor or the other guys promoting trading are doing as great when the BTC price goes into breaking upward periods, like it seems to be doing now, since they cannot really get the ups and downs correct, and then when the BTC price goes up, they are caught outside of their trade and with fewer bitcoin than they should have had.

Hahaha...you can't just cease to amaze me about this "trading" you always bring into the picture, where are you seeing that? If anyone didn't align with your concept of short-term investment, you assume it to be trading, but how? That is what you've not proven since, even as we are all learning.

There is nothing to prove, and I have already frequently suggested that in order to be investing into bitcoin you need at least a 4 year timeline, which means no selling, so if you are selling you are trading and if you have less than a 4 year time line it is also trading. I don't have to prove anything, it is based on definition, and you don't necessarily need to agree with my definition in regards to what you are doing, which I am going to call trading rather than investing since you don't have at least a 4-year or longer timeline and you are selling along the way too.. .. and don't get me wrong, I might also consider you to be more of a trader even if you have more than a 4-year timeline too, if you might merely be playing the waves and you happen to have more than a 4 year timeline that you are playing the waves.

We don't need to agree on these definitional matters, and you are not even really describing what you are doing that is supposedly so smart anyhow, yet it is difficult to image you to be doing anything other than trading.

If you were to be accumulating BTC and buying only but trying to strategically buy on dips, then I probably would not call that trading, but I still might question why anyone who might be a low coiner or a no coiner should be ONLY buying on the dips rather than buying all the time, and surely there can be quite a bit of variation, and we don't even necessarily need to agree.. so even if you are not trading (which I doubt that is the case), I have my skepticism in regards to your failure refusal to describe how you have been criticizing strict DCA tactics, when you are not even describing how your supposed superior system improves upon it.. and gosh, I am not even saying that newbie bitcoin investors have to follow a strict DCA strategy, since they can also buy with lump sum techniques and buying on the dips, and one of the main things is for them to attempt to customize their buying strategies so that they are both comfortable with what they are doing in regards to the quantities of their bitcoin buys, whether weekly or otherwise, and at the same time being conscious of how much they are spending on bitcoin from their discretionary income in order to account for their income and their expenses and making sure that they don't end up miscalculating to such an extent that they don't have various kinds of back up funds to smooth out such errors that might happen from time to time.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

You don't have to accept this, but in investing, there are short, medium and long-term investment methods, so why should I be forced to accept only the long-term investment scope despite having two alternatives left?

You don't have to accept anything that I say or that anyone in this thread or forum says, especially since no one is going to save you (or even give any shits) besides you, if you fuck things up. So you are completely responsible for your own decisions and implementations of such decisions. As I already said that I would not consider your definition of investing to actually be investing, especially since you are vague about it, and it sounds like most, if not all of your definitions of investment are variations of trading..

Hey, it could be that I would consider that something that you are doing in regards to your bitcoin management might fall into the category of investing, and surely I understand that any of us can divide our capital into various kinds of categories that might involve various kinds of trading with parts of the capital and maybe other parts of the capital are medium and long term.. so sure, I don't have any problem with your employing those kinds of strategies that likely give you some better senses of what you are doing, especially if you are proclaiming to be some variation of a professional or expert trader (or expert portfolio manager), yet when we are in a public forum like this, and if we are trying to proclaim some kind of superiorities in our investment strategies - especially referring to bitcoin if we are in a bitcoin thread, then yeah, there may need to be some particulars that are described if we are proclaiming that our system is better than some other system or if we are suggesting that our system might be replicable..

From my perspective, you seem to be proclaiming that your system is superior and implying that it is replicable, yet failing refusing to give particulars beyond perhaps creating some impression that we need to learn about how to be able to read BTC price directions so that we can play the BTC price waves like you apparently do on a regular basis, and you are bringing your BTC trading skills over from some of your prior experiences and expertises... but you still are not describing any of that very well so if you are wanting to proclaim how your strategies are superior to DCA strategies, then you have the burden to produce your evidence and also the burden to persuade how your systems are supposedly better.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

However, the one you choose at a particular time should depend on your plan/vision for the asset (which is your own style you like people to always only believe)

I thought that we were talking about bitcoin in this thread? Perhaps bitcoin and cash. Are you thinking that any other assets and/or currencies are relevant to this thread?

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

and the prevailing market condition (smart investing that needs variant methods).

What methods would you like to suggest? I was mostly referring to buying bitcoin directly, and are you wanting to get into the use of financial instruments, margin and/or leverage or what methods are you suggesting to be relevant? Frequently, when it comes to bitcoin, I suggest that beginners stick to the basics first, which involves making sure that they have their cashflow management in some kind of order so that they are making sure that they are buying bitcoin from their discretionary income and not making mistakes in regards to determining their discretionary income. Once someone gets to a point that they got their shit together in regards to cashflow management, then they can up their level of aggressiveness, and perhaps learn more about bitcoin at the same time so that they might be able to tailor the level their aggressiveness in their bitcoin investment in accordance to their learning more about what bitcoin is as compared with other assets that might be competing for their investment energies, time and value.

I would hate to be presuming too many skills since we have so many folks who are either no coiners and or low coiners, so there is already of folks who have to just get off zero first before getting into more complicated aspects of their BTC accumulation, and surely I am not opposed to the potential employment of more complicated and sophisticated ways of accumulating bitcoin and/or managing a bitcoin portfolio for anyone interested in learning those kinds of skills.. but surely those are not even close to being basic necessities or broadly applicable in regards to folks employing more complicated practices, as you seem to be vaguely proposing that more sophisticated methods are important to argue about being applicable and relevant, merely since you seem to know about these various supposedly superior techniques, while at the same time you are not really saying what they are...except maybe merely saying that they are variations of investing blah blah blah.. short, medium and long.. which largely sounds like trading to me and also seems to sound like trading to many of the other members who have been responding to your posts that seem to want to redefine aspects of trading as investing.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

You can't expect me to be static by applying the same principle and strategy to different market conditions, that must have meant that I am not dynamic like the market itself, I am certainly not that kind of a person.

Of course. if you have techniques that inspire to move with the market and you got it all figured out, then do what you like. It does not mean that beginners to bitcoin and/or those folks in their first 4 years of BTC accumulation should be fucking around with the same dynamic (which is likely more complicated by definition) techniques.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

And if you must know, I HODL Bitcoin as well, only that I diversify my plan and strategy/approach, unlike you. Now tell me, who is smarter?

You are smarter. Of course.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

The person with only one view at the mercy of a future that no one knows yet, or the person who varies his views/risks and has multiple approaches for earning and better management in case of the unexpected?

One of the benefits for anyone starting to invest into bitcoin is to just ongoingly buy bitcoin and then to perhaps reassess where his investment is at 4-10 years or longer down the road, and many folks are not going to want to try to figure out the various dynamic circumstances, so in that sense, it seems that in the past 12-ish years, those folks who have mostly been accumulating BTC through buying BTC, and who have not been fucking around with trading or getting in and out or whatever, have way more outperformed the ones who have been fucking around with trading and/or employing inconsistent strategies. Sure, there might be some folks who had been able to out perform the DCA buyer, but those are likely the exception rather than the rule.

I already mentioned that we already know that there are ONLY a handful of days that we need to be in the BTC market each year; however, there is no real ability to know when those days are going to be, so if we are not in bitcoin during the key days of the year, then it is quite likely that our BTC holdings are going to underperform the ones who stayed in bitcoin throughout the years.

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

Lastly, DCAing and HODLing are not the only ways to earn through Bitcoin investment, I do apply them as well, but they can't and will never be my only way, you might also want to upgrade. I can't be a static investor, and again, we are not talking about trading here, it's all investing.

In this thread you can talk about either trading or investing, yet you have not even really described what you are doing that seems to be so special in regards to your "investing techniques." You seem to be including trading, but whatever, it is difficult to really get excited about what you are supposedly doing better through your supposedly more dynamic approach, when you seem to not ready, willing or able to give some kind of a straight-forwards and understandable description to it.

Quote from: DYOR+BTC on Today at 05:48:01 PM

Quote from: asarfiar on Today at 01:30:18 PM

Bitcoin is the world's top asset creating a stir in the current online system in the crypto world. 1 trillion from today it will grow bigger and bigger we must accept this fact. Bitcoin will eat up all other weak assets, for example all properties will fall at a price that represents their true value, and its inhabitants will not get wet in a moment of rain.

Bitcoin will not eat up other asset, bitcoin is a good asset to invest but doesn't mean other form of investment will be discarded or neglected. Bitcoin will dominate as from %50 -%80 investment of many people but doesn't still mean all other form of business will not function.

I think that when most people describe bitcoin as dominating and continuing to dominate they are suggesting that the principles of Gresham's law will continue to motivate the direction of money flow, which means that the people will tend to spend from their weaker currencies and assets first and hold onto and store into the stronger ones within the process. So it still will likely continue to take a long time for value to continue to flow into bitcoin as amongst the best (if not the best) place to store value.

Many of us likely already realize that there are a lot of inefficiencies in current monetary systems that are based upon debt and money printing and even the storage of value in real estate, residential properties, stocks has been perverted in various ways based on ongoing debasement of various fiat systems based on their ongoing inabilities to resist continuing to debase such fiat systems through printing... so even if everyone is not aware of bitcoin's superiority, value is going to continue to gravitate into bitcoin. We are still in relatively early days of bitcoin's adoption, whether we are referring to the adoption of individuals, institutions and/or governments, there are similar incentives to gravitate value into bitcoin, even though surely as you mentioned, other value systems are going to continue to exist, even while their monetary value will continue to flow into bitcoin as the most sound of places to keep value..and more and more people are learning about the value of bitcoin as compared to other places to store value.

Quote from: Salahmu on Today at 06:25:31 PM

Quote from: asarfiar on Today at 01:30:18 PM

Bitcoin is the world's top asset creating a stir in the current online system in the crypto world. 1 trillion from today it will grow bigger and bigger we must accept this fact. Bitcoin will eat up all other weak assets, for example all properties will fall at a price that represents their true value, and its inhabitants will not get wet in a moment of rain.

When you talk about all properties you are obviously referring to physical assets like real estate and so many others, actually you shouldn't compare Bitcoin with those assets because they are not the same however Bitcoin is a digital assets while properties is a physical assets and each of them represent different style of investment and they are also good on there various ways but however when it has to do with any digital assets Bitcoin is the most reliable and profiting investment, though it doesn't mean that you can be profitable without going through the accumulation process because just like every other business hardworking is the key to success and in Bitcoin your hardworking rely on your consistent investment on Bitcoin.

Digital and physical attributes overlap, especially when it comes to the storage of value, so any of us should be able to recognize and appreciate that there are a large number of physical assets that have gained some of their value based on various perversions of our current monetary (debt) system which also involves the ongoing debasement of fiat currencies, so there are a lot of physical assets that are being used as stores of value and they are not necessarily good and/or efficient as means to store value...and bitcoin is superior to them in that regard, so that does not mean that the physical assets lose their value (or even their true value or their utility value), yet the physical assets become more accurately priced in the market when value is allowed to flow where it more naturally belongs, and since bitcoin is most likely the best monetary asset that has ever existed in the world, monetary value should continue to flow into bitcoin and away from several of the now existing inferior monetary assets/currencies.

Quote from: Salahmu on Today at 06:25:31 PM

Quote from: EarnOnVictor on Today at 04:58:20 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 04:17:08 AM

I doubt that EarnOnVictor or the other guys promoting trading are doing as great when the BTC price goes into breaking upward periods, like it seems to be doing now, since they cannot really get the ups and downs correct, and then when the BTC price goes up, they are caught outside of their trade and with fewer bitcoin than they should have had.

Lastly, DCAing and HODLing are not the only ways to earn through Bitcoin investment, I do apply them as well, but they can't and will never be my only way, you might also want to upgrade. I can't be a static investor, and again, we are not talking about trading here, it's all investing.

You are right DCA is not the only way to accumulate Bitcoin and I can remember vividly when JayJuanGee mentioned it to you that there are other methods at which you can use to accumulate Bitcoin which he mentioned Lump sum because this strategy is also commonly use by investors on there accumulation face, so you can decide to use both DCA and Lump sum together or you can focus on only one strategy is your choice, so actually I think you were misunderstanding JayJuanGee on that aspects because he never meant that DCA is the only means of earning Bitching.

Of course the three BTC accumulation methods are DCA, lump sum and buying on dip... and sometimes we refer to HODL as a BTC accumulation technique, too for guys who run out of money, which is to suggest that most time it will be better to just HODL through seemingly "bad times" rather than to sell in order to generate more money to buy on dips that do not seem to be ending.

I am starting to doubt that EarnOnVictor is really trying to engage in a genuine and meaningful discussion, since he seems to even be convoluting terms and employing strawman arguments to proclaim that DCA is inferior as an investment approach since it is too static as compared to whatever his supposed investment approach might be (which seems to be that he is talking about trading, even though he wants to describe his trading as short or medium term investing rather than conceding that he is talking about trading, especially since he is employing selling techniques into his BTC accumulation techniques, which may or may not end up working, so he seems to be playing a lot of hide the ball techniques in terms of how he is even talking about what he is doing that is supposedly superior to BTC accumulation techniques that focus on buying only and/or holding.

For sure, many of us can appreciate that BTC accumulation approaches that are static may well be a feature rather than a bug, and has historically been superior to dynamic techniques that frequently have historically ended up in guys selling too much BTC too soon and then getting themselves into financial and/or psychological waiting traps. Also, past performance does not guarantee future performance, so each of us is responsible for any techniques that we choose to employ (and waiting and/or not investing it also a technique that might cause future regrets).