Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 12:14:07 PM

Immigrants can't vote until they're citizens. Contrary to popular belief in some qanon circles, there is no fast-track citizenship for asylum seekers (which is I think what most anti-immigration rhetoric is focused against). They have to apply for permanent resident status, which comes with all background checks and everything else that any permanent resident has to go through. There is even a medical exam involved for some reason. After that, getting a criminal conviction can result in deportation. Even something as benign (for a citizen) as DUI or being homeless can mean deportation (for a permanent resident). At the end of all this, after 5 years, one can apply for citizenship. Once they have it, I don't know why they would need to vote for one party or the other. But if one party claims they're eating dogs and cats, I can see how they might be reluctant to vote for it.

Well, I said that this would be accompanied by reforms to make nationality and/or residency easier to acquire, for example:

Kamala Harris as President would make it easier for you to move to the US

Quote

If Kamala Harris were to become President in 2025, the landscape for legal immigrants and international students might differ significantly from what would be expected under a Trump administration. Harris, who has consistently advocated for more inclusive immigration policies, would likely implement reforms aimed at expanding opportunities for immigrants and international students.

The process for obtaining work visas, green cards, and citizenship might be streamlined and made more accessible, with an emphasis on family reunification, support for skilled workers, and protection of immigrant rights. International students would likely find a more welcoming environment, with policies aimed at making the U.S. an attractive destination for higher education and post-graduate opportunities.

I don't know if the site is a right-wing nut conspiracy but it is certainly not the first time I hear something like this and it is in line with the plans of the Labor party in the UK and the socialist parties in Europe. Fill the country with lots of immigrants, very fast, and speed up the procedures for them to get citizenship and residency.

Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 12:14:07 PM

The US needs ~1 million immigrants every year just to sustain population size and economic growth. Trump killed immigration reform bill so that he could continue to use this issue as a campaign slogan. That's pretty much all there is to know about his immigration policies.

The million immigrants are easy to get even if the Mexican border is closed tight. According to CNN (which sees it as wonderful, of course) net immigration in 2023 was 3.3 million people. That's 2.3 more than needed.

Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 12:14:07 PM

IIRC ~100 million Americans are first or second generation immigrants, and they tend to be (particularly 2nd gen) around average or better than average on metrics like income, education, crime, etc and tend to vote similar to other people in their age range, so it seems that the evil Democrat plan to buy votes is a big failure.

Well, maybe I'm looking at this from a European perspective but and I'm focusing mostly on mass migration processes that occur in short periods of time. In Europe that has led to ghettoization, not integration, and obviously the second generation is not coping any better than the first generation. The ghettos of Marseilles would be an example, but there are many others.

Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 12:14:07 PM

This country was built on immigration and hopefully with continue to be, otherwise we're all fucked and not in a pleasant consensual way.

Yes, but we are not discussing that here. All prosperous countries need immigration, the question is how many people come in and how fast.

Quote from: Hispo on Today at 04:44:06 PM

I was aware immigration was an important part of the building of the United States as a nation, but regularly I had this impression they did not actually outperform the average when came to those metrics you are talking about, but it makes sense when one keeps in mind the huge brain drain there are in many developing countries.
For example, I am from Venezuela and I live in Venezuela, with the lastest humanitarian parole and other means people have managed to move to the United States I am impressed with the amount of enginners from my college who have decided to give the big step and move to that country, it is not only desperate people seeking to flee from poverty, but actual professionals who just want to have their family a better future while at the same time working their ass off in humane conditions.

So you mean they are fleeing the wonderful communist country of Venezuela, to go to the shitty capitalist country of the USA where the American dream no longer exists, workers can't get ahead because they are oppressed by capitalism and the like? I thought the logical thing would be the other way around. And especially if Trump wins I predict that there is going to be an emigration of tens of millions from the USA to Venezuela.

Quote from: Hispo on Today at 04:44:06 PM

In contrast, though I must mention it is unfortunate Tren de Aragua has managed to get some of their people there in the States. Criminals from this country are really something else. There is no country in which there are no criminals, though. Perhaps, the Vatican city?

Now more seriously (unlike the previous comment). That's what happens, if you let in millions of people unchecked, there will be a majority like the engineers you were commenting on who are simply looking for a better life by earning it honestly but you are also letting in gangs of criminals.