Quote from: Wind_FURY on Today at 08:35:29 AM

Pretending? No ser, merely asking for fairness sake. We can assume that some of them are scams, OK, but ALL of them? I believe not. But if you could provide the verifiable data showing that all of them actually are scams that don't do the service that they claim, then that would be very useful, thank you very much. Cool

Stop repeating this false claim, you never provided any proof that these scamming sites are providing a service:

Quote from: Kruw on September 26, 2024, 10:39:52 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 26, 2024, 08:37:17 AM

And mixer's receiving address is merely another peer in the network, no? Centralized mixers, like centralized exchanges, are merely providing a service for the community.

That's my exact point: A "mixing site" is just someone else's wallet. Unlike exchanges or casinos, a "mixing site" is not a service since there is no underlying purpose for the site's existence.

Quote from: Kruw on September 28, 2024, 12:23:42 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 28, 2024, 06:02:41 AM

Because if the entity you call "the wallet" actually mixes their users' outputs well, then who are you to tell everyone that "there's no underlying purpose for its existence"? If it's a service and does the service well, then it's up to you to use it, or not to use it.

The entity's wallet doesn't mix users' outputs at all. There's absolutely nothing technological involved here that enhances privacy.

Quote from: Kruw on October 03, 2024, 07:29:40 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 03, 2024, 06:39:32 AM

I'm talking about a hypothetical mixing service that actually does everything right, which may also exist somewhere, no?

Yeah, that's exactly my point that proves o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner's goal is to scam users out of both their coins AND their data. You can't possibly mistake these scammers for "Privacy Advocates" since the custodians they promote don't provide any privacy whatsoever, despite the option for these custodians to issue fully anonymous Chaumian Ecash.

Quote from: Kruw on October 03, 2024, 07:29:40 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 03, 2024, 06:39:32 AM

But if you believe that a mixer that was advertised in BitcoinTalk is/was merely an "entity's wallet" that does/did absolutely nothing, then please ser, kindly show us the data/proof of your findings.

Stop playing dumb, it's not like you could have forgotten that you still owe everyone on this thread an apology for your partnership with Sinbad

Quote from: Kruw on October 03, 2024, 09:44:10 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 03, 2024, 09:37:44 AM

where's the data that those services actually didn't do their jobs in mixing their users' outputs? They probably did mix them, no?

No, we already established these sites do absolutely no "mixing" whatsoever, it's just a deposit address for the scammer's wallet

Quote from: Kruw on October 04, 2024, 09:43:41 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 04, 2024, 08:39:51 AM

Centralized mixers might have flaws, there might be weaknesses, but those entities actually making no effort of mixing their users' outputs?

A mixing site is not "flawed". A mixing site does not have "weaknesses". A mixing site has LITERALLY NO PRIVACY ASPECTS WHATSOEVER, A MIXING SITE JUST GENERATES A DEPOSIT ADDRESS FOR THE SCAMMER'S WALLET.

Quote from: Kruw on October 05, 2024, 10:45:49 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 05, 2024, 05:54:59 AM

Because not all centralized mixers are built the same, no? Although you make a good point of telling us that there are bad actors out there, but there must be those good ones that do provide an actual service of making users' outputs untraceable?

I already explained this to you:

Quote from: Kruw on October 03, 2024, 07:29:40 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 03, 2024, 06:39:32 AM

I'm talking about a hypothetical mixing service that actually does everything right, which may also exist somewhere, no?

Yeah, that's exactly my point that proves o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner's goal is to scam users out of both their coins AND their data. You can't possibly mistake these scammers for "Privacy Advocates" since the custodians they promote don't provide any privacy whatsoever, despite the option for these custodians to issue fully anonymous Chaumian Ecash.

Quote from: Kruw on October 08, 2024, 11:27:10 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 08, 2024, 08:57:18 AM

many of them also try to build a real mixing service to make their users' outputs untraceable after the mix, no?

No, they don't. I already explained this to you:

Quote from: Kruw on October 03, 2024, 07:29:40 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 03, 2024, 06:39:32 AM

I'm talking about a hypothetical mixing service that actually does everything right, which may also exist somewhere, no?

Yeah, that's exactly my point that proves o_e_l_e_o and BlackHatCoiner's goal is to scam users out of both their coins AND their data. You can't possibly mistake these scammers for "Privacy Advocates" since the custodians they promote don't provide any privacy whatsoever, despite the option for these custodians to issue fully anonymous Chaumian Ecash.

These custodial sites do not issue Chaumian ecash. These custodial sites do not issue coins on a sidechain with confidential transactions. "Mixing sites" offer absolutely zero privacy whatsoever to depositors in the process of stealing their coins.

Quote from: Kruw on October 09, 2024, 09:07:23 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 09, 2024, 02:35:28 AM

I understand, you already posted about that.

Then why are you still pretending like there's a chance these scamming sites are providing a service?

Quote from: Kruw on October 14, 2024, 06:26:23 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 14, 2024, 04:55:57 AM

But the burden of proof on what? That my opinion is that there are centralized mixers that accept the trade-offs of being centralized/be a trusted-third-party to do what their service is supposed to do?

Yes, you've had a week to justify your opinion with a single shred of proof that supports it:

Quote from: Kruw on October 07, 2024, 09:53:57 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 07, 2024, 05:09:40 AM

BUT like you posted in your post before, you have no data to the claim that any/all centralized mixers are mere wallets that do not mix their users' outputs. No data = no proof = ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The burden of proof is on you, not me.

Quote from: Kruw on October 10, 2024, 08:03:02 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on October 10, 2024, 08:01:37 AM

You accuse ALL of them of being scams? OK, then please provide the data/proof of your claims.

The burden of proof is on you, not me.

And after a week you failed to find any proof whatsoever of a "mixing site" actually performing a privacy operation on the deposits of their users in the process of stealing them. Since you clearly know that "mixing sites" are scams, why do you continue to pretend there is a chance they are providing a service?