Quote from: Odusko on Today at 12:39:02 AM

So you mean that Bitcoin trader's are dumb?

It is dumb to trade bitcoin. Traders may or may not be dumb in all of their choices in regards to what to trade and/or how to trade.

Quote from: Odusko on Today at 12:39:02 AM

Because as a matter of fact, and can still double his Bitcoin position in such a way that, you cash flow because the Cardinals to how you approach Bitcoin, sometimes you have such approach as long term Bitcoin investor and also as a trader, this way you have a set aside funds to accumulate Bitcoin on a long term basis and this Bitcoin accumulations won't be touch for the long term, and in the other hand you have a set aside fund's, this one is for trading Bitcoin, from it you came leverage on the Bitcoin market volitilities to cash in on some gain's that the market move ups and down, so doing this is not so dumb for me

You seem to be lacking in focus, yet sure, whatever.. do what you like. If you want to fuck around with trying to trade or getting involved in NFTs or whatever you believe might be profitable that is your choice. Hopefully, you do not end up screwing up too much when you sell too much of your bitcoin too soon when it would have had been better to just stay in bitcoin rather than scraping off various dollar profits here and there and missing out on the longer term compounding effects that so far have tended to play out in bitcoin and there really is no evidence to suggest that bitcoin's long term investment thesis is getting weaker with the passage of time.

According to your forum registration date, you have ONLY been registered on the forum for 3 years, so if you have been buying and accumulating bitcoin for three years, then you might want to consider how you might have had done if you just had been focusing on investing and buying into bitcoin rather than fucking around with trying to trade it.. .. so perhaps part of the presumption would be that you might have had been wanting to accumulate bitcoin, so for example it you had been buying around $210 in bitcoin each week for the past 3 years, then you would have had invested close to $33k, and you would have accumulated slightly more than 1 BTC.. .Perhaps not making a killing, yet also not really in a bad place in regards to bitcoin accumulation and how much it had cost you to get to such a bitcoin stash size.

Surely, the longer that anyone has been into bitcoin, then it becomes harder and harder to beat a strictly accumulating approach to bitcoin as compared with fucking around with trading. Trading likely puts you into a lot of waiting and strategizing rather than merely concentrating on being in bitcoin and building your BTC stash. So for example a guy who had been investing $100 per week in the last 9 years would have invested around $47k and accumulated right around 18.35 BTC, and surely that is even a better place to be since more time has passes during the ongoing accumulation of bitcoin.

Even right now 18.35 BTC has a spot price value 0f about $1.23 million and a 200-WMA value of $734K.. so surely not a bad place to be with a $47k investment since that would be right around 26x in profits with the spot price valuation and right around 15.6x profits with the 200-WMA valuation.

Are you suggesting that your fucking around with trading is going to have very good odds of putting you into a better position? And sure maybe you can make your trading work for you so that you are more profitable, yet at the same time is such a trading strategy generally applicable to most people.. Most likely not, so why would we want to be talking about trading as if it were some kind of a great thing to do in regards to bitcoin when it actually seems to require either some specialized skills and/or luck, which surely could devolve into gambling rather than really building something, and yeah sure you are free to do what you like, but it seems a bad general idea to be gambling with your investments. Bitcoin is risky enough so why be adding more risk onto it by trading it... unless perhaps you don't even really understand bitcoin, and you are trying to suck off (or scalp) dollars from it, so you are just trying to get dollars, which is also an inferior way to be holding value as compared with bitcoin, if you had not realized that tiny detail.

Quote from: Odusko on Today at 12:39:02 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:14:33 AM

Quote from: Stablexcoin on October 15, 2024, 07:07:56 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 15, 2024, 04:56:23 PM

It is dumb to be trading such a valuable asset like bitcoin, especially if you have goals to accumulate more of it rather than getting dollars that may or may not even hold their value.. Of course, we already know that dollars do not hold their value as well as bitcoin, even though in the short term it can be a bit confusing as to which one might be more favorable to hold in the short-term.. .yet at the same time, part of the rationale to not get caught up in short-term thinking in regards to bitcoin is to perhaps recognize some bitcoin attributes that cause it to be amongst the best (and actually probably the best) of the long term storages of value, sound money and/or the one that is not going to depreciate in value especially over the longer time frames, but hey whatever people are going to do what they are going to do when it comes to trading the most pristine asset so far known to man.

Your first phrase truly speaks all about Bitcoin. Why would anyone tend to trade an asset with so much value? This means only one thing, and that is the fact that they don't know the value of Bitcoin which is why they take such a terrible action towards it. One good way to know the value of Bitcoin is by learning about its investment, buy and hodl. 10 years and more would probably show the evidence. Although not every beginner would want to try it now because they are waiting to see the evidence first. Unfortunate for them when it get to that time, they might end up regretting why they didnt buy now.

Wanting to see evidence first is a gambling mentality.. and scared into being overly conservative. Many times, if folks are having that level of hesitation and trepidation in regards to investing into bitcoin, they likely need to adjust their position size downward so that they are not so worked up about it... Of course, they can continue to learn after getting started and then increase their position size as they become more comfortable.. yet there still is a need to get started and just to start out slow if they are not feeling comfortable.

Evidence comes when the experience is already on the ground and for an investor most especially those who invest in highly volitile asset like Bitcoin, it is very important to have the basic mindset of how unpredictable Bitcoin can be and at that we should not expect everything to become rosy the moment we invest in them, this is very important in other not to cause panic for ourselves along the line, once we mentain a steady balance Bitcoin position opening, it becomes very easy to accumulate more and More Bitcoin along the way and also being very less concerned about Bitcoin short term market reactions which definitely will always correct back along the ways, so being mentally and emotionally grounded while investing in Bitcoin is highly essential for the growth and sustainance of a newbies journey into Bitcoin accumulations.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying here, and I still think that adjusting position size can be helpful in regards to figuring out how much to put into bitcoin and/or how aggressive to be in regards to the investment. In terms of the disposable income, there could be a choice to invest 50% of the disposable income into bitcoin or there could be a choice to invest higher or to invest lower, and it might become more stressful the higher the investment amount.

So for example if a person has an income of around $2.5k per month, and expenses of about $1.5k per month, then the person has $1k per month disposable income. There could be a choice to invest $100 per week, which would be nearly half of the disposable income or maybe close to $200 per week, which would be all of the disposable income. Alternatively there could be a choice to invest $30 per week. So a person has to figure out his position size in such a way that is comfortable, and if the knowledge about bitcoin and even finances, psychology and what is wanted is low and the confidence in bitcoin is low, then it would seem more justifiable to have a lower BTC position size as contrasted with someone who might have more organization in his cashflow management and perhaps even more confidence in bitcoin as an investment.

Quote from: tiCeR on Today at 03:27:10 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:14:33 AM

Quote from: Stablexcoin on October 15, 2024, 07:07:56 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 15, 2024, 04:56:23 PM

It is dumb to be trading such a valuable asset like bitcoin, especially if you have goals to accumulate more of it rather than getting dollars that may or may not even hold their value.. Of course, we already know that dollars do not hold their value as well as bitcoin, even though in the short term it can be a bit confusing as to which one might be more favorable to hold in the short-term.. .yet at the same time, part of the rationale to not get caught up in short-term thinking in regards to bitcoin is to perhaps recognize some bitcoin attributes that cause it to be amongst the best (and actually probably the best) of the long term storages of value, sound money and/or the one that is not going to depreciate in value especially over the longer time frames, but hey whatever people are going to do what they are going to do when it comes to trading the most pristine asset so far known to man.

Your first phrase truly speaks all about Bitcoin. Why would anyone tend to trade an asset with so much value? This means only one thing, and that is the fact that they don't know the value of Bitcoin which is why they take such a terrible action towards it. One good way to know the value of Bitcoin is by learning about its investment, buy and hodl. 10 years and more would probably show the evidence. Although not every beginner would want to try it now because they are waiting to see the evidence first. Unfortunate for them when it get to that time, they might end up regretting why they didnt buy now.

Wanting to see evidence first is a gambling mentality.. and scared into being overly conservative. Many times, if folks are having that level of hesitation and trepidation in regards to investing into bitcoin, they likely need to adjust their position size downward so that they are not so worked up about it... Of course, they can continue to learn after getting started and then increase their position size as they become more comfortable.. yet there still is a need to get started and just to start out slow if they are not feeling comfortable.

That is a semantically strong interpretation of the preceding post. I had to think about it for a second and it is true. You are literally gambling as there is value on the table and if it goes up you missed the train because you won't be any more convinced to invest when it went 2x since you have first thought about it. That's probably a fallacy that some call "patiently waiting for evidence". Now if BTC goes to 130k, the people who said they are waiting for evidence will then say they are again waiting for evidence that it doesn't crash.

But if it goes down they might buy, or they might not because they don't see an increase in opportunity, but an increase in the risk for BTC to go to zero.

That makes no sense at all. I understand when someone in 2010 or 2011 said they want to give it a few months or years to see where it is heading. However, not even that is really true as supply-wise people could have bought a substantial part of the supply for literally nothing.

Some will just follow what others do, but for those who want to find out what's right and what is wrong about the buzzwords that bitcoin is often brought into context with, do the research instead of "wait for evidence". I wonder what that evidence would be because in order to assess whether evidence has been provided or not, someone would have to actually understand the bitcoin system. Otherwise, how would someone judge or on whats ground would someone judge whether bitcoin is a viable investment opportunity or not?

I realize there is some fundamental flaw in that way of "waiting for evidence" thinking. Question is, will they realize themselves or miss the boat?

It seems that some people are too smart for their own good, and some of them are too smart, but they have hardly any investment experienced, so perhaps they are largely scaring themselves out of investing by requiring evidence.

On the other hand, let's take a guy who already has spent 10 years investing and building his investment portfolio. The guy should already know that DCAing into the investment is how to go about it, and it takes a long time to build an investment portfolio.... So let's say that our example of a guy has an already existing invesment portfolio of around $100k, and so largely he got to that size of an investment portfolio by buying $100-$150 of stock or whatever is in the investment portfolio, so more than half of the holdings is from constant buying and the other portion is due to appreciation of the asset, so he should already be smart enough to realize that he needs to get into bitcoin in a similar way, yet maybe for some reason he thinks that he has to lump sum into bitcoin and if he creates a BTC investment target of 5% to 25% (that would be $5k to $25k in this example), then he might be anticipating that he needs to go in after seeing the evidence and feeling good about his entrance point.. which maybe is close to retarded, rather than just DCAing into bitcoin.

Anyone who already has a decently good sized investment portfolio might still need to DCA into his bitcoin position which could take 1-2 years to get to his BTC position size... Let's say he decides that he is going to get his BTC position size up to 15%, yet he is going to try to get it there in 18 months... ..so maybe he would have to invest around $1k per month (or perhaps around $230 per week) into bitcoin in order to get his BTC position size up to 15% of his overall investment portfolio in the next 18 months. All of that would make sense for the person who is working to take action rather than fucking around with analysis and/or waiting for or trying to find better evidence.