Quote from: Ricardo11 on October 24, 2024, 12:44:16 PM

Quote from: Zackz5000 on October 24, 2024, 11:25:01 AM

Cheeking or timing the Market before accumulating Bitcoin to me is a wrong approach or strategy of accumulating Bitcoin. If the reason why you are timing the market is to know when Bitcoin is at dip before accumulating will really delay your Bitcoin journey and is not good.

At this point in time I don't think it is logical to be timing the market now as our primary concern should be how much Bitcoin we can be able to accumulate so we won't be left behind so timing the market is a complete waste of time so in other not to be left behind it is best we use this opportunity to accumulate more Bitcoin through the DCA strategy which help you to accumulate Bitcoin regardless of the price level either weekly or monthly because the amount of Bitcoin in your possession will determine how much profitable will be in the future since our purpose is for long term Bitcoin investment.

In fact, for investors who determine the Bitcoin market only to buy dips, it is not only a waste of time, but they also miss out on good opportunities and causes stress. People who always try to time their investments only to buy dips will never be able to invest at the right time, they will only lose opportunities. The main objective in investing in Bitcoin should be regular investment, and long-term holding. You have to invest regularly, build Bitcoin strash by regularly investing a certain amount through DCA, and determine the amount of your future profit portfolio on top of your investment portfolio.

Investing through the DCA strategy allows you to accumulate more bitcoins as a result of short-term market declines, And investing on a regular weekly or monthly basis will give you average value over time, allowing you to build up more Bitcoin Strash if you continue to do so consistently over the long term. The more bitcoins we accumulate, the more profits we can earn in the future, so continue DCA regularly and definitely keep an emergency fund and reserve fund ready, so that you can use that reserve fund to buy more bitcoins if the price of bitcoins drops suddenly.

So all in all plan long term and buy bitcoins regularly, don't sit around buying dips all the time by timing the investment. Think DCA, because DCA is the most effective strategy and will make you the most profitable.

Several of you guys seem to have the right idea in regards to the earlier that any of us is in our bitcoin accumulation journey, then the more that we just focus on regular buying of BTC through DCA, lump sum buying, and perhaps just ongoingly considering ways to increase our discretionary income by increasing our income and/or cutting our expenses so that we are able to buy more and more and more BTC. .. so starting to include buying on dips tends to be more of a later stage strategy that is partly based on how much BTC you have already accumulated and if you might start to feel that you need to be engaging in some more strategic buys based on various cashflow management ideas that you start to have, and surely there are some guys that might want to start being strategic and they ONLY have 1-2 years of BTC accumulated (in regards to how long of a time their BTC holdings could sustain them), and if our goal is to get somewhere between 10 years and 25 years in order to reach some variation of fuck you status, then it may well be too early to be trying to be strategic in regards to bitcoin buys (meaning buying on dip) until the BTC size might reach higher amounts. Surely there is no exact line in the sand amount that it starts to make sense to start to hold some money aside for starting to buy on dips rather than just ongongly buying regularly.

Another question might be how long has it taken to get to our current status, and what is the timeline in which fuck you status would be nice to reach and perhaps starting to be able to draw from the bitcoin rather than continuing to build its size, and so I doubt that there should be so much focus on profits, since there should be a bit of a presumption that the BTC portfolio is more and more in profits with the passage of time, especially once we have been accumulating BTC for 4 years or longer, so their is a bit of a presumption that profits are going to be there (even though surely profits are not guaranteed), yet the focus would not necessarily be how much profits to be motivating us in regards to if we need to start to consider if we have enough or not, but surely the ideas overlap since if we might have spent 6.5 years investing around 15% of our income into bitcoin, then we have might have already taught ourselves that we are able to live fairly comfortably on only 85% of our income, so even though 6.5 years of investing 15% of our income into bitcoin may well result in a whole years's income having had been invested, and so then maybe the extent to which that BTC investment portfolio is enough to sustain ourselves for more than a whole year may well also have to do with whether or not the BTC had appreciated in value during that time, and we are likely better off an more in profits with the bitcoin that we bought the furthest back as compared with the BTC that we had been buying in more recent times, if we presume that it is quite likely that BTC price are going to continue to gravitate upwardly in price with the passage of time.

So part of my point is that profits should not tend to be as much of an emphasis of the longer term bitcoin investor, yet how many BTC had been accumulated and surely what are their dollar value and have they been keeping up with the cost of living and/or the likely ongoing debasement of the dollar (or whatever fiat that you are using as your measuring stick in regards to your cost of living). Focusing on profits seems like a short term way of thinking as if the guy is going to spend 6-10 years or more accumulating bitcoin in order to cash into dollars, which hardly makes any sense since bitcoin has been the best place to hold value and the evidence seems to suggest that bitcoin is going to continue to be amongst the best of places, if not the best place, to continue to hold decent amounts of value... so measuring profits in dollars is largely a nonsensical idea... even though bitcoin's purchasing power does seem likely to continue to go up.. so there likely would be profits, yet measuring in dollars can also be somewhat misleading if we are trying to consider purchasing value and real value rather than nominal value that is messed up by a perverted measuring stick.

Quote from: Shadiq on October 24, 2024, 04:29:12 PM

Quote from: Tmoonz on October 24, 2024, 04:06:23 PM

No doubt that the DCA strategy has an enormous benefits one of the reasons why it dominated majority of the Bitcoin threads but however, it may not really be necessary attempting to suggest that the DCA is the most effective strategy when what should be mostly prioritize is maximizing and utilizing any kind of strategy or strategies that are suitable enough to aid investors increase their Bitcoin size, the focal point is to increase your Bitcoin amount while holding for as long as necessary irrespective of your strategy or strategies so far it suits you in terms of your financial status, investment goals and objectives. Secondly, we should also know that people can as well invest in Bitcoin in such way to retain value and not just for profit.

Many on the forum want to declare DCA as the best strategy, but I can't agree with them. DCA is effective and popular technique, no argument about it. But to call DCA as the best and most cost-effective method, I think it is an exaggeration. Of course, an individual has full freedom in deciding the investment strategy and he will choose which strategy is best for him according to his situation. You can definitely help a person to figure out the strategy, you can show them the benefits of DCA. I am not saying whether DCA is the most profitable method or not. But if you can be consistent and long term in DCA then you can accumulate more bitcoins than you can imagine. Even DCA allows you to buy any amount at any time

You sound like you might be smarter than everyone else, Shadiq. Traders and/or shitcoiners tend to act like that, but at least you did not say anything about any shitcoins, so you are at least seeming to stay focused on talking about bitcoin and perhaps bitcoin accumulation, no?

State your goals and describe a hypothetical person to describe a potential BTC-related strategy that might be better than DCA. DCA works so well with BTC because it allows an ongoing investment into BTC as a person's income comes in. Of course, if a person has a lump sum amount that he can invest into bitcoin then he need not invest DCA with that lump sum amount, but he has more options when he has a lump sum, so he can choose to accumulate bitcoin with the lump sum by 1) buying right away, 2) DCA spreading over time or 3) buying on dip.

If the person does not have that lump sum, then that option is not available, so DCA allows the person to buy BTC as the income comes in and if the person can determine how much of his income can be allocated towards buying bitcoin, so then the options become either to buy right away or to hold the amount and wait for a dip in the BTC price. Waiting for a dip does not seem to be a great strategy if the goal is to accumulate BTC, yet each person can still decide for themselves whether their goal is to accumulate bitcoin or not and if they have enough. If they assess that they don't have enough, then what strategy seems better, to buy or to wait? If you appreciate the power of DCA, then you likely recognize that DCA is an acting and/or buying strategy and not a waiting strategy, which seems to be a pretty decent one when it comes to BTC a d pretty decent also if you might be investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.

If you are fucking around with trading and/or gambling of BTC, then you might be a wee bit lost in terms of how you value bitcoin and/or what you are trying to accomplish through your involvement with BTC, including your likelihood to be successful with a trading/gambling rather than an accumulating and investing strategy. It is your choice in the end, and no one is going to save you if you screw things up and 4-10 years or longer passes and you had not ended up spending an adequate/sufficient amount of time focusing on accumulating bitcoin. Over the years, many of those kinds of people have come to learn about bitcoin, yet if they had ONLY been thinking about bitcoin and not figuring out ways to accumulate it (until they get enough or more than enough), then they ONLY have themselves to blame if they were employing inferior strategies in regards to how to think about bitcoin and what to do about it in terms of the extent that they had much or any of it in their investment portfolio.

Quote from: red4slash on October 24, 2024, 06:13:05 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 19, 2024, 08:45:18 PM

So even if they might say that they are ready for either up or down prices, they might end up not really being prepared because they ended up over-investing in light of their own mental preparedness.

In this case I agree because in the end not only beginners but some of them there must be people who have even been involved with bitcoin for a long time who do say they are ready with all the consequences but in the end give up because their mentality is not too strong because indeed this does not only depend on the strength of words but must continue to be believed that our mentality is really ready for it, it's just that there are some moments where mentality is sometimes not that strong especially faced with a situation that makes us down.

One of the challenges happens to be that even if a person may well had chosen to focus on building up his bitcoin holdings, there can be a lot of up and down periods in the first 4 years, and surely the problem of ups and downs might not be resolved even after the first whole cycle of accumulating and building the BTC holdings, yet there could be better chances that the BTC holdings will have had been in profits after 4 years, versus in the first 4 years there may or may not be profits. Profits are not even guaranteed after 4 years, so there should be some acceptance to figure out a BTC position size that allows that investor to continue to feel comfortable with whatever amount he chose to invest, while realizing that profits are not guaranteed..

Surely somewhere in the ballpark of 5-25% of an investment portfolio (or that percent of an income) should be in the range of acceptable for many folks, so then the level of his aggressiveness or whimpiness within that range or even going outside of the range should be measured based on getting some assessment of his psychology and/or his risk tolerance. which is difficult for anyone to meaningfully measure apart from the person himself to find a level of balance that feels as good as it can under the circumstances, and sure no matter what there may be some uncomfortableness about not investing enough if the price goes up or investing too much if the price goes down, so the person has to figure out his level that we be sufficiently comfortable for him to be able to tolerate and even feel good about either BTC price direction playing out.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on October 24, 2024, 10:16:47 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 24, 2024, 06:42:14 AM

Before 2020, I frequently would suggest to guys to do whatever they could to invest into bitcoin, yet my default position was to frequently suggest to them to just invest $10 per week and somewhere between 1% and 10% of their investment portfolio into bitcoin, so a lot of the thrust was meant to just guys off of zero. Starting in 2020, I moved my suggestion to $100 per week and getting 5% to 25% into bitcoin, so sure I increased the level of the aggressiveness of my recommendation, even though guys are still subject to their own limitations in regards to either how fast they might be able to get a decently good stake into bitcoin and if they might already be someone who had invested into things previously, so presumptively they have more assets to redistribute into bitcoin, versus if they were a brand new investor which tends to mean that no matter the situation, it is more likely it is going to take a decent amount of time to establish a stake in bitcoin, which may be a cycle, two cycles or even longer, and surely the more aggressive they are able to be, beyond my $100 per week starting point, then the more like they will see progress in terms of dollar amounts they are putting in, yet still people can ONLY do what they are able to do in terms of their own disposable income and other financial and psychological factors that they might have as part of their personal situation.

In all of this what i deduce is the early adopters are far ahead in their accumulation and will definitely have more proportions which can seemingly be hard to catch up with for new traders.

I would suggest that fucking around with trading and you are likely to never catch up, and probably you should not even think about a need for you to catch up, but instead just to do your best to accumulate bitcoin based on what you know now and what are the means that you have available to be as aggressive in your BTC accumulation as you are able to be without overdoing it or recking yourself. Trading is way more likely to contribute towards your recking yourself as opposed to largely, if not exclusively focusing on buying BTC on a regular, consistent and persistent basis.

At the same time, you are responsible for your own approach to BTC.

So, sure it is true that the longer you have been into bitcoin, the more likely that you have gotten benefits out of your being in bitcoin for a long time, yet one of the advantages that even a new adopter or a very recent entrant into bitcoin has is that these are still early days, even if everyone always believes that they are too late, yet you are way the fuck more likely to be in a better place if you get started buying bitcoin now and figure out your strategies in regards to how you are able to be as aggressive as you can as compared with the guys who wait and think that they can come to bitcoin later down the road and to still be in a position to not be prejudiced by their waiting. We cannot move back the clocks, but we can get the fuck started now, and realize that it takes a whole hell of a lot of time to build up an investment portolio.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on October 24, 2024, 10:16:47 PM

But at the same time new traders can also start their own accumulation and potentially grow it into a large proportion too. I personally agree that a wait for any new investor either waiting for a perfect entry, or a thinking that the amount they have is small is somewhat limiting their own opportunity. For That i will certainly add that once you have funds to spare then don’t just throw it on other things but rather just maximize it by investing it into bitcoin, investing into bitcoin doesn’t have a specific price point to buy, rather buy at intervals when you funds are ready, the price as at the time you buy could be the lowest price you can actually get it at, constantly using this strategy gives you more accumulation and saves you from unnecessary losses

It seems that I agree with everything that you are saying in this part, and surely we cannot really have any high level of confidence where the bitcoin price is going, especially in the short term, and bitcoin has already had quite a few examples in its history where it does a stairstepping bounce up and then never comes back down, and we never can know exactly when those periods are going to be. Surely, there have also been periods where the BTC price corrects for extended periods and takes a while to get back up to its previous price points, and so BTC investors who stayed in the market and continued to accumulate bitcoin have tended to do better than those who were scared out of investing into bitcoin or who ended up selling too much of their bitcoin too soon.

Quote from: JiiBs on October 24, 2024, 11:08:54 PM

I was still wondering if the challenge of having to do our exercises was on but, I don’t really find anyone keeping up at the time. Well, I did some today after a long while, it wasn’t about the challenge though, just me trying to stay fit. I wouldn’t give any records to it but, eventually, I had to peep and we are on DCA now so it seems.

It could still count towards the challenge as the challenge haven’t been all exercise but, what your able to help yourself in your wallet with in preparation for where we hope price to reach and surpass.

You can consider joining the forum's pushups challenge thread if you like, and in that thread (which has been going on for about 8.5 months and is more than 180 pages) we are just focusing on doing pushups (and not other exercises) until the BTC price reaches $100k... so yeah 100 pushups per day until $100k is no joke and not easy to continue to try to do.. even if you might choose to not do 100 per day and even if you might choose to not do your pushups every day, you can still participate. You can even get your results in the pushup's table if you submit a pushups report (there are 76 forum members who currently have their names published in the daily pushup's table).

Quote from: tiCeR on Today at 12:18:29 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 24, 2024, 06:42:14 AM

[edited out]

I have said this before somewhere some time, but can't exactly recall when that was. My role in this forum was a different one from day one and I have done a couple of things to acquire BTC. I made three major mistakes and one thing just came into my life that changed most circumstances naturally.

First mistake, I traded because BTC was so volatile that in the beginning I never really fully grasped whether this thing called bitcoin is going to go global or not. I can tell you that I had discussions with some people who were closely involved with BTC or had their first experience developing a digital currency in the 90s and the feelings about bitcoin were indeed mixed. I was not in a position, at least I didn't feel like I was, to just hold whatever I acquired when the price went up substantially. It was confusing because sometimes the value of your portfolio melted away by 60% in a day. I couldn't give the whole volatility reasonable meaning and when these crashes happened, I instead thought I was stupid to not sell. Which eventually led me to selling too much too early.

Second mistake was a classic one: I left a substantial amount on an exchange that went bust. Now I say a substantial amount more like in the value terms of today. Back at the time it was still substantial, but it wasn't like hundreds of thousands. I used two exchanges to gain from arbitrage. It worked for a while, and then it didn't... This taught me a major lesson: never touch arbitrage opportunities in crypto anymore because there is a reason unknown to the public why a coin is cheaper or more expensive on one exchange than on another. I remember people talking about Binance Australia trading for so much lower or higher, can't recall, but I knew that the reason is probably because your funds get stuck in Australia. And that was the case.

Third mistake is a huge one and it depends on which country you are living in: taxes. Doing arbitrage and trading entails taxes and I am sure most people do not have proper accounting in place when they trade back and forth, on several exchanges, with several coins... It's the worst you can do and I had to learn my lesson again. It's very bad and once you are on the radar, which was the case in my case because I was running a small business that accepted BTC, it's literally impossible to provide the evidence you need to convince tax authorities in your favor. Another very important reason to simply DCA and HODL. No headaches at all then.

The last important detail is a change in my life, wife and family, and I took on a challenging job in electrical engineering in another country. That somewhat put my passion on hold for a bit, but not entirely though. I still own some that I don't move because that is the safest way in regards to taxes.

I can add that I own some XMR as I was one of the first to mine it via AWS instances. Most people didn't know how to set it up right when it was launched in April 2014. It was quite complicated as there was no mining software provided in the forum and you had to understand how to deploy AWS instances with Putty and some terminal commands and so on and so forth. Some of those are dormant and I have never touched them and I will leave them where they are. I did sell some because renting AWS instances was an interesting experience: you could easily burn through $1k a day in cost. Good though that by then I learned how to do proper accounting... No tax issues with that one.

Obligations in the coming years afterwards didn't get any smaller and to put it mildly, I have gone through a steep learning curve as I was never confronted with saving and investment strategies when I was young. It just wasn't a thing in my family and sometimes I think this is a huge factor. You can't develop this emotional resistance concerning volatility or thorough financial planning with all the issues in mind if you didn't go through it yourself.

Today I would say I am a fundamentally different person than I was 13 years ago. But I wasn't the only one who made mistakes. I know a software developer who was very early into bitcoin and he sold tens of thousands of BTC at $1 to buy a car. Quite a young guy at the time. We didn't have all the resources and the history to look back on that people have now. We didn't have the proof that bitcoin couldn't be attacked. Now it's quite easy even for someone who is not a developer or can't read code: today's newcomers can tell themselves that 1.3 trillion USD market cap is a nice target for all the hackers/attackers in the world and that amount securely protected by the network is proof enough that it can't be attacked.

Not that I am guaranteed to remember your story, yet it can be quite interesting to hear about the various ups and downs that come from any of the folks who have been in bitcoin for a while. Thanks for both sharing and also doing it in such a way that does not necessarily dox you, so in that sense it provides a decently good example how to give details without getting too much into personal particulars.

I can relate to making mistakes, and surely the longer that we are in, the more likely that we would have some mistakes under our belt. Surely, some mistakes are more devastating to the size of our BTC stash as compared to other mistakes.

I suppose part of the reason that I was even being a bit of a questioner of your history is in regards to questioning the extent to which you might consider yourself to still be accumulating bitcoin... so yeah, with your various explanations, you may or may not have a feeling of having enough bitcoin or more than enough BTC, which is part of my own way of referencing that guys might find themselves in a BTC accumulation mode, yet at some point later in the journey they might start to feel that they have graduated into more of a maintenance rather than accumulation mode, even though the lines are not exactly absolute in terms of any bitcoiner's moving from one mode to another.

Quote from: Frankolala on Today at 04:37:20 AM

Quote from: Jewan420 on Today at 03:23:11 AM

But you need to plan before you start investing.

Of course, a proper planning is needed before anyone can venture into his bitcoin investment, otherwise, you will sell your bitcoin investment before time, because you need to figure out how much of your discretionary income you will need to invest in bitcoin weekly for long that will not put pressure on you and how long you will be investing 4-10 years and above, and to reach you bitcoin target, because there should be a target.

Planning should not delay anyone from getting started in bitcoin, since they can figure out details as they go, and likely the ONLY thing that they need to know to get started is that they have discretionary income, and sure if they know from the beginning that they are able to commit to investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer would be fine, but they really don't even need to commit to 4-10 years or longer right in the start, yet they should get started and as they are building their BTC holdings and perhaps also making sure that their emergency fund is sufficient too, they likely should be gravitating towards the idea that bitcoin is a long term investment and not a trade, so if they really are considering how to figure out their bitcoin stake and their various BTC targets, then they can buy on a weekly basis while assessing these matters, and hopefully they would end up figuring out that their timeline should be 4-10 years or longer. The level of someone's experiences in investing and/or money management is likely going to vary when they come to bitcoin, and surely some of the earliest challenges might be figuring out ways to improve cashflow management systems, even though I am going to presume that everyone has the basics of cashflow management skills, even though there will be needs to improve the cashflow management skills and also to account for having potentially more back up funds than usual since bitcoin does tend to be a volatile asset, so systems should be put in place or clarified to make sure that no bitcoin is going to be sold at a time that is other than completely of one's own choosing, so part of the commitment to a long investment timeline of 4-10 years or longer is to make sure that there is no expectation to be dabbling into money that had gotten put into bitcoin.

Quote from: Frankolala on Today at 04:37:20 AM

Quote from: tiCeR on Today at 12:18:29 AM

I can tell you that I had discussions with some people who were closely involved with BTC or had their first experience developing a digital currency in the 90s and the feelings about bitcoin were indeed mixed.

Am I missing something mate, because I know that bitcoin was created in 2009, so how did these people you said you ask about bitcoin will have the knowledge of bitcoin or digital currency in the 90s.

You might be misreading tiCeR. I think that he is merely saying that guys that he was talking with about bitcoin had extensive backgrounds in digital currency, and they had experiences that went back into the 90s, even though he was talking with them in 2011 or 2012-ish.. .. and so their experience would not have been bitcoin specific, but instead products related to bitcoin that caused them to be somewhat skeptical about the longevity/durability/investibility of bitcoin.. so back in those days, he (tiCeR) was influenced to (or suade into based on BTC's volatility too) treat bitcoin more as a trade rather than as an investment.