Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 05:58:55 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:57:26 AM

[edited out]

You are right when you said when discussing about Bitcoin giving presumptions about what bitcoin is good for on a general level rather than trying to tell individuals what to do, there are different method to follow in investing in Bitcoin however just like you said we should not tell someone what to do or the strategy to follow but we should discuss about the good about Bitcoin and it's good strategy in a general terms from there they can make there decisions on how to go about there Bitcoin investment.
Imposing something on someone may not go down well with that person, people do well when they choose by there selves what they what to do so it will be better we don't impose something on people especially the newbies all we should do is to discuss all this things in a general level and after doing that they can go through it and make there choice, before coming to this forum I didn't have the knowledge about DCA strategy so when I came I saw different discussion about different strategy a read them and I decided to go with DCA strategy.

Sure. Even though we might seem to be similar things, I still seem to be outlining somewhat differing points from you, including the various dilemmas that can exist, even when two folks might have had followed similar strategies up until a certain point, so it can become quite ambiguous regarding the repercussions of selling a bunch of bitcoin and taking dollar profits, which surely is still profitable and perhaps even more profitable than any other investment, yet still at the same time, in bitcoin, it could come to be realized that the person who sold all of his bitcoin after 6 years investing had ultimately put himself in a worse position than he would have had been had he not been so drastic in his decision to take profits and/or to get out of bitcoin.

There could be some cases in which the better decision would be to get out or at least to considerably cut down in the bitcoin investment, even though it would have had been financially better to hold onto the bitcoin, so in some senses, individual financial and/or psychological circumstances still might end up justifying the taking of short-term profits, even though there might even be decent knowledge that the decision might not look so good down the road in terms of objective measurements of financial value comparisons.

Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 05:58:55 AM

Well I think those who sell all there Bitcoin as soon as they reach there Accumulating goal or as soon as Bitcoin hit there goal price really do not believe in the continue growth of Bitcoin.
Another reason why some people sell off all there Bitcoin is because they want to use the money to venture into another investment.
Selling all your Bitcoin is not wise, no one is stopping you from selling some of your Bitcoin when you have accumulated enough but selling all is not right because Bitcoin is still growing and if you sell all your Bitcoin you might not even be close to a good place in comparison to the person that sold some and hold some.
Well is till your choice to do what ever you feel is right for you because you are still the one to carry what ever result you get at last.

Ok.. These are all fair discussion points, and surely in the example that I had given, we see the guys in their early 40s when they get into bitcoin, and one of them takes profits in his late 40s and the other one lets it ride and by the time he is in his early 50s (a few years after the other one had already taken profits), the one who did not take profits is sitting in a quite secure position because of his choice to mostly hang onto his bitcoin.. and hopefully also ended up managing his overall financial situation in a much more forward-looking direction, even though each one of them might have had strong temptations to sell large portions of their BTC stash in late 2020 when bitcoin got back up to its 2017 high of $20k-ish.. and so these surely can be difficult decisions, and perhaps just selling part of the BTC holdings might be a kind of compromise solution that ends up playing out better than selling the whole stash.. and even we could see that these guys who had accumulated about 55 BTC by late 2020, they could have sold 3-5 BTC at $20k (which would have been $60k to $100k) and still got back more dollar value than their whole initial investment amount that was around $47k at that time, and still be left with 50-52 BTC remaining in their holdings to continue to ride out the coming years.. whether he might determine that he had accumulated enough or not.. and yeah sometimes we might not know if there might be some other financial and/or motivating factors that are driving one of the guys to sell more of his BTC, and in my hypothetical, I am trying to suggest that the guys are very similar in their financial situations, and the main ONLY difference between them is that one of them got anxious about feeling that he needed to sell all of his BTC in order to realize his profits, and the other did not feel anything near that level of anxiety and mostly was willing to just continue to hold all of the BTC..even while the BTC was passing back above new ATH BTC price levels (of $20k) once again.

Yeah, after the fact any of us can say, I would have done this, that or the other thing, yet when we are going through the actual process, it is much more difficult to figure out what is the best way forward since we have hardly any clues, apart from hunches, in regards to which direction the BTC price might be going in the short to medium to long term...but we do know the BTC price that we have right in front of us at the time that we are going through the contemplations about what to do.

Quote from: Stablexcoin on Today at 12:57:30 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:57:26 AM

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

Sometimes guys end up investing too much, and not realizing that they had invested too much, so there can be some psychological help for the guy to be able to continue to hold and/or even to keep in buying BTC if the guy is already able to detach himself somewhat from the amount of money that he had already invested and also detach himself from paper value of the money, especially if he might also realize that it could well be another 4-10 years or more (even after he had invested for 6 years or so) until he is going to actually start to consider to withdraw from the money that he already invested...so there surely can be fears that the value of the holdings could drop, 20%, 50% or even 80%, so then there can still be nervousness about holding such value, and perhaps in those kinds of greater dropping situations, the solution might not be merely to continue to hold but instead to make sure that some kind of a buying plan is in place to help to reinforce the conviction about the investment, especially when the whole value of the investment is ongoingly going down during perhaps even an extended period of time and seeming to fail to go back up.

Quote from: sotelorene on Today at 02:48:36 PM

Quote from: Mayor of ogba on Today at 08:21:43 AM

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You are actually right, short term investment wich can also be seen as trading is not really advisable because no one can tell what the market will look like in that short interval of time but we can't really tell for sure if there is going to be a profit or not that is to say that there may be profit in that short period and there may not also be a profit in that same period of time, so the best is to hold for a long period of time and that's the only way one can enjoy his or her investment.

You are not even coming close to resolving the dilemma sotelorene.. since in the case of my hypothetical there was something more than 20x in profits when one of the guys decided to sell all of his BTC, and so yeah, he may well be considering that he is greatly in profits, yet in the end, it was likely not the better financial move for him to make, since he may well did not even need to buy all of the things that he ended up buying and he ended up being a no coiner (or perhaps a low coiner if we change the hypothetical a bit) in his early 50s.. and it could become even worse for him and perhaps even more difficult to buy back in since he sold all of his coins in late 2020 at $20k.

The problem is not easy, since his cashing out at 20x profits still did end up improving his life, yet he still might end up being somewhat fucked by not having any coins and he still might have another 20 to 50 years to live, and so in regards to his approach to bitcoin he has to start over. .when he could have made some better choices in regards to how to manage his bitcoin, yet he does not really realize his mistake until several years after he already sold all of his coins.

Quote from: sotelorene on Today at 02:48:36 PM

I think some people have to learn in a hard way before they will understand how things actually work and also know the right approach to..., someone can only be a failure when he or she stop trying so if they go into short term investment and peradventure they failed, some will change their method of investment and hopefully they will succeed but having wrong impression about it, is an impression that person is/going to be a failure, don't give up for what you know it's valuable simply because you failed by going the wrong way.

Sure people learn more through experiences, yet I am not sure if you are saying very much, since there are bigger and smaller mistakes that guys make, and sometimes guys will continue to make similar kinds of mistakes, yet as they get older, they sometimes will end up in a position in which they are no longer ready, willing and able to work as hard to earn money, and so they may well not be able to do over their mistake, so surely they have to figure out a way to still learn from their earlier mistake without ending up making some new mistakes by perhaps gambling more or trying to turn back the clock (and make up for prior losses) when the clock cannot be turned back..and one of the best compounders of value is time.. .. and so if they time is used up, there is no way to really go back and make up that time that was lost or squandered away.

Quote from: Sim_card on Today at 03:22:57 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:57:26 AM

[edited out]

I will prefer to be in hypothesis 1 shoes that only sold 10btc and has 45btc in my custody. The reason is because bitcoin investment is worth hodli till old age when you have retired because the longer you hodli, the higher your portfolio and profits. before you can decide if you are going to pass it on to your children or start shaving profits bit by bit. If I invest in bitcoin for 6 years, why will I want to waste all my effort, time and resources to build such bitcoin investment, and start selling too much too soon.

Yeah, surely its good if we can see in advance that we should not be taking rash actions in regards to our bitcoin as an investment, especially if we had been spending 6 years building it up, yet there are still so many guys that cannot get trading and/or gambling ideas out of their head and they sometimes cannot appreciate the value of incremental actions rather than feeling that they have to sell everything.. and so even very smart guys get sucked into all or nothing kind of thinking in regards to their investment, and sometimes that all or nothing thinking could end up paying off, yet we cannot really know for sure until much later down the road, and surely sometimes it could even take a few years before we realize a mistake that we had made much earlier and that we never did really recover from that earlier mistake.. and then by the time we realize the mistake, we might be in a much more problematic position, including not really being able to rectify our mistake.. including that the guy who sold all of his bitcoin and largely consumed it.. and sure he had some investments in there too, but the investments may well not have come even close to as well in regards to their performance as if he had just kept the value in bitcoin... including that property is much less liquid than bitcoin, too...and includes a lot of costs (maintenance, taxes, purchasing fees) that might not exactly be realized. .but surely some of us might also be buying a personal residence and then no longer having to pay rent... .. even though we are more locked into a certain geography.. so surely there is some value in that too..

Quote from: Sim_card on Today at 03:22:57 PM

I saw it before my own eyes how the value of bitcoin increased during that six years duration that I was investing aggressively. If I don't want to add more to my investment because I have reached my bitcoin target, I will prefer to hodli and watch the value of my portfolio increase exponentially due to the size, and if at all shave very little profit once in a blue moon.

This is the mistake some investors will make by selling to much bitcoin too soon without considering the value of bitcoin in future, because they got carried away with too much profits in fiat and couldn't control themselves, I will call that mismanagement of bitcoin investment because there was no sustainable withdrawal plan. It's good we know all these things so that one will not regret his actions in future.

It is likely that we are going to make some mistakes along the way, even once we get to 6 or more years investing into bitcoin, yet if we are also able to learn from the mistakes of others or even hypothesize out various possible scenarios, then we are likely going to be more prepared to know how we want to manage our own bitcoin holdings in light of of our personal situations, and perhaps lessen the severity of any of the mistakes that we do end up making along the way. Sometimes also when we prepare in advance, we might anticipate making a variety of mistakes, but then at the same time, out preparations end up facilitating that our whole situation ends up performing better than our better case scenario of plans, so our planning and putting our plans into actions, ends up allowing us to be able to both identify future opportunties, but also being in a position that we are actually able to act upon the future opportunities when they end up coming available to our then situation.

Quote from: Proty on Today at 06:25:24 PM

Quote from: Stablexcoin on Today at 12:57:30 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 03:57:26 AM

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

This statement sounds misleading morespecially to newbie because it will be unreasonable to invest in bitcoin with the mindset that you can withdraw your profit whenever you feels like , bitcoin investment is best appreciated when view in terms of longer term.unless those that are fucking around with trading and bitcoin is unlike gambling or shitcoin were you can gamble in or out with the plans of making quick profit.
There is no time that is not right to hold bitcoin and also it depends on our accumulation plans, as new investor who are still in there early stage of bitcoin accumulation should focus more on acquiring more bitcoin and hold for 8-10 yrs or longer.

Well the truth of the matter is that each of us is always empowered to do whatever we like, including abandoning our earlier made plans.

Of course, there is value in sticking with our plans, and there is value in creating plans in which we are going to be ready, willing and able to stick with our plans, yet at the same time, I am going to presume that each of us is still an adult who can end up fucking up our own plans, and to be tempted to take out too many profits too early.

There is almost no way to completely lock any of us into any plan that we make, except for each of us could end up engaging in rituals, such as ongoing buying of bitcoin, that might help to reinforce our being able to stick with our original plans, yet at the same time bitcoin is likely going to be continuing to be changing in value and there are going to continue to be various drama and negative talking points about bitcoin, so each of us still has to figure out our own various ways of dealing with those situations, and if we tweak our plans, we may well be figuring out ways that we might tweak our plans from time to time, and hopefully end up not taking ourselves completely out of the game.. and sure sometimes we might damage ourselves by tweaking our plans, but we might also damage ourselves by failing/refusing to tweak our plans. We might not know in advance and we likely need to be able to figure out ways to incorporate our own learnings along the way, and each of us has to do that... and I have my doubts that preset rules are going to completely be the answer, but hey, you can do what you like if you believe that preset rules might be the answer for you or for anyone else.