Quote from: Ricardo11 on Today at 04:58:55 AM

.......Yes, Bitcoin is a long-term asset, and its success is very high. And the examples of high success of Bitcoin are in front of us, such as MicroStrategy, BlackRock, El Salvador, Tesla, Metaplanet, there are also some other big Bitcoin holders who have been holding Bitcoin for a long time, and today they are very successful, and they are going to achieve more success in the future, because Bitcoin is going to be more valuable in the future.
History is a witness that long-term holders are the ones who ultimately benefit the most. Because if we think about the price of Bitcoin exactly 2 years ago, then the price of Bitcoin was below $30K, and today the price of Bitcoin is at an all-time high and it made the best ATH of all time 10 hours ago which was $94K.

That is, those who have been patiently buying long-term DCA for 2 years have already made a good profit.
And if Bitcoin is going to grow even more in the future, then those investors are going to make much more profit in the future.
Thus, holding Bitcoin by following the DCA method can definitely be the key to success in the long term.

I agree with your overall points, yet you seem to have a bit of a loose rendition of the facts to support your argument, even though your overall direction is still correct, and the actual facts are probably even more bullish than you are characterizing them to be, since any of us can look at the BTC charts, and we can see that exactly 2 years ago, the BTC price was bouncing around $16k, which truly was the low for that portion of the then BTC price dip.

So we might have had a bit of a challenging two years for any newbies buying and the BTC price has pretty much been going up the whole time, yet surely it was still a good time to be buying, even though there are many examples in which lump sum (if it would have had been possible) would have had paid off better than DCA, especially in the past 2 years, yet at the same time, many of us recognize and appreciate that lump sum is frequently not easy and/or practical to carry out, whether any of us might be poor or rich, DCA seems to be amongst the better of the approaches because it is more practical to attempt to manage money with a DCA approach, even though early lump summing would have had paid off better in a period of time that an asset, like bitcoin, had gone up right close to 6x during that period of time, if we are starting out exactly 2 years ago from the time of these posts.

Quote from: SuperBitMan on Today at 06:54:42 AM

Quote from: Odohu on Today at 06:00:01 AM

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on November 19, 2024, 08:21:49 PM

You know the thing is that many people think that it is easy to make a profit basically the traders I believe that even though you know what you're doing in Trading that will not make you to think that every time you be involved in making profit if it is so many people would have become a billionaire in Trading but I know quite well that all these things is all about luck and opportunity so if you don't have such opportunity something that you'll be able to make profit.

When trading become a thing of luck, that is where I feel it is not committing ones life savings into because it is possible to be lost completely. The reason many people indulge in trading rather than investing is that they have the illusion that trading will make them rich overnight so they come in with the millionaire mindset to reap the market only to find out that it was not what they thought, after they might have paid the ultimate price. All the bad attributes that make people to fail are found in the quest for to become rich overnight through trading and that is where people miss it.

Instead of doing trial by error with my money, I prefer investing such money in Bitcoin which I no is not going anywhere soon. I rather watch my money grow gradually over the years than see it disappear with few days of bad trading experience.

This mind set of making it overnight is the same mind set of a gambler, some people has come out with facts that trading is not gambling because is not a game of luck, they say is a game of intelligence, they say if you study the market very well you will know what will happen next and that's who you predict and win, however some set of people has also come out to say no matter how good you are in studying the market you must lose one day and I think all traders believe there will be a lose one day when trading but let your winning be more than your losing.
Now some gamblers also believes if you study a game very well it gives you a chance of winning.
I have played gamble before and that was on soccer I predicted some teams to win and that's because I have been watching soccer for years and I know the strength of teams I predicted to win sometimes my predictions works and some time it those not.
Trading and gambling may not be the same but it has similarities.
They are both risky and anything can happen if you are losing more than you are winning please stop, some people may $100 today the next day he wins $150 and the following day he wins $100 again and a week later he lost $550 in a single day you are losing more than you are winning, some people don't calculate the amount they calculate the number of times they have won and lost and think they are doing better, what everyone should be checking is the amount lost and won.

There is deception in measuring trade wins in dollars too, since it fails to appreciate that if you are not sufficiently in the BTC market when the BTC price shoots up, then you may well never get back the opportunity costs that you just squandered by fucking around with selling too much BTC too soon with an anticipation that you would be able to buy back cheaper later.. blah blah blah.. which just has tendencies to turn such losers into either bitter cunts or re-enforcing their gambling mindset or causing them transition into a "waiting" investment strategy, when they don't have close to enough bitcoin in the first place, and they shouldn't have sold what little they had..and they should have had just kept buying even if the buying raises their costs.. after a few years.. perhaps 4-6 years or longer, with an ongoing buying of BTC practice, they likely are going to be able to see that they are in a better position based on their ongoing persistence and consistence in buying BTC rather than fucking around and not continuing to buy BTC.

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 07:12:20 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:06:02 AM

Quote from: Stablexcoin on November 19, 2024, 10:06:28 PM

Quote from: Frankolala on November 19, 2024, 06:59:21 PM

However, if you are in your bitcoin accumulation process and have not reached your bitcoin target, it's impossible for you to say that you want to live on your bitcoin investment, because you need a job to continue accumulating more bitcoin and anyone without a job will not be able to invest in bitcoin and grow his portfolio, which will make you start selling too much of your bitcoin, too quick and you will regret your actions in the long run.

Even if you have reached your Bitcoin accumulation target never say fuck you to your main source of income. Whatever the level of knowledge we think we have acquire its a huge risk to quit our job. 90% of success in Bitcoin investment is long term, consistency and patience. Instead of quitting why not we continue a stable investment to live off or save for a business that you can rely on. The only time i can agree to someone quitting his job is if it is not a good paying job and when an individual has made enough to retire.

It seems to me that you are misunderstanding what it might mean to reach fuck you status, and surely you realize that you can quit your job if you have made enough to retire, so why is that different from quitting ones job when they have enough BTC?

For sure, the more BTC you have the more options you have in regards to income off of it, and there could be errors in calculating the value of your BTC, so surely there are a lot of examples of people who pull their fuck you levers way too early because they miscalculate how much BTC they actually need in order to live off of them and how to valuate them and to valuate their standard of living expenses (or increases in their standard of living due to debasement of the dollar/fiat or from chosen increases of lifestyle expenses).

Well even as a holder of Bitcoin, I haven't even thought of this, or contemplating of surviving on my Bitcoin holdings even when I have gotten the stash of Bitcoin I wanted, though at that point I might decide to be taking profit from it bit by bit after retirement, but not like depending on it fully for survival.

When you are accumulating and building your bitcoin stash, you might not be in a close enough place to be able to measure many of the variables that are going to be relevant towards whether your BTC stash is of a sufficient size to completely support you as compared with being able to merely supplement various income that you already have including whether you might still have to continue working at points later in your life than you would have had preferred to keep working.

It seems to me that the longer that you accumulate BTC and that you study various aspects of your bitcoin holdings in light of your various 9 individual factors, then the more informed you are going to be in regards to the extent to which you might be in a position or approaching a position in which you might be able to completely live off of your bitcoin stash as compared with merely supplementing yourself with your bitcoin stash.

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 07:12:20 AM

Because to me that's the easiest way to drain the asset you should be leaving for your offsprings.

I question how solid of a goal any of us should have to be leaving most or all of our bitcoin to our offspring, and surely there can be ways that we also can make sure that we personally benefit from our own efforts in building up our bitcoin stash beside counting on supposed goodness of our offspring to care for our bitcoin in similar kinds of ways that we had cared for our building of our stash.

There can also be ways to accomplish both self-benefits and benefits to offspring if we are so inclined to provide some or a lot of wealth to offspring that may or may not deserve it.

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 07:12:20 AM

So having another source of income or a business running for you is very much important, so that you wouldn't get to that point of draining your holdings after retirement.

I don't have any problem with the idea of diversifying, even though it sounds to me that you don't really sufficiently understand bitcoin if you believe that the goal of building up wealth in bitcoin is to have to put such wealth in some other business, even though sure there can be ways to draw from bitcoin and other sources of income, yet since bitcoin is such a superior asset, it may well be that bitcoin is a way better place to be relying upon income than to be fucking around with potentially inferior places to put your value.. yet in the end, it is up to you regarding the various ways that you might consider diversifying your risk and/or your income or the extent that you need to diversify beyond bitcoin in order to achieve sustainable income from your wealth..

and again, the more bitcoin you accumulate and stash away and the more you study bitcoin, you may well figure out ways that you are able to count on bitcoin for your income way more than you seem to be currently considering bitcoin.

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 07:12:20 AM

Though I might be wrong, but having a good source of income as a man is something we shouldn't joke with regardless of your financial status or the stash of Bitcoin in our possession.
So in essence of what am trying to say is that regardless of anything, constant cash flow is very much important even when you have gotten to the top of your Bitcoin accumulation process.

You seem to be repeating, and I think that I already addressed this re-emphasis of yours.

Quote from: Callido on Today at 09:00:10 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 12:06:02 AM

Quote from: Stablexcoin on November 19, 2024, 10:06:28 PM

Quote from: Frankolala on November 19, 2024, 06:59:21 PM

However, if you are in your bitcoin accumulation process and have not reached your bitcoin target, it's impossible for you to say that you want to live on your bitcoin investment, because you need a job to continue accumulating more bitcoin and anyone without a job will not be able to invest in bitcoin and grow his portfolio, which will make you start selling too much of your bitcoin, too quick and you will regret your actions in the long run.

Even if you have reached your Bitcoin accumulation target never say fuck you to your main source of income. Whatever the level of knowledge we think we have acquire its a huge risk to quit our job. 90% of success in Bitcoin investment is long term, consistency and patience. Instead of quitting why not we continue a stable investment to live off or save for a business that you can rely on. The only time i can agree to someone quitting his job is if it is not a good paying job and when an individual has made enough to retire.

It seems to me that you are misunderstanding what it might mean to reach fuck you status, and surely you realize that you can quit your job if you have made enough to retire, so why is that different from quitting ones job when they have enough BTC?

For sure, the more BTC you have the more options you have in regards to income off of it, and there could be errors in calculating the value of your BTC, so surely there are a lot of examples of people who pull their fuck you levers way too early because they miscalculate how much BTC they actually need in order to live off of them and how to valuate them and to valuate their standard of living expenses (or increases in their standard of living due to debasement of the dollar/fiat or from chosen increases of lifestyle expenses).

I am not a job person, so if i reach my fuck you status in my Bitcoin accumulation then it would be very much easy to quit my job and retire, basically my retirement doesn't mean i am off with using other sources of income not just relying on living from my holdings. The shot there is to take profits, reinvest into basic marketing or business without any stress.

I am not clear exactly what you are saying, except it seems to me that you are believing a similar error that I already attempted to address with Barikui1 in that you seem to think that you need to sell your bitcoin and to establish income in some other kind of asset or property or business in order to be able to sustainably withdraw income to support your current or future standard of living. Those seem to be faulty assumptions, even though surely there could be ways that you might optionally choose to diversify away from bitcoin, yet such diversification may or may not be required in order to get to a sufficiently high enough level of bitcoin wealth in order to be able to sustainably live off of your bitcoin stash.

You can also look into some of my sustainable investment and/or withdrawal ideas.

Quote from: Callido on Today at 09:00:10 AM

In terms of misinterpreting/miscalculating the level of profits attained is a subconscious feeling when the investor tries to evaluate according to what is present and with less or no calculations on how the future will look like, from selling off everything and just basically living off the whole sell figure. Huge economic slow down might happen, inflations and crisis which will alter expenses on living, drastically there will be more to take from what was kept aside from what was calculated, more to that we also believe emergencies are prone to happen at any point in life. I rather not claim to retire, then fall back to working once more to raise my living expenses, if i am not old of age to retire fully then i might still continue contributing to my sources of income just something to work independently.

There are ways to calculate with cushions so that once you go into retirement and/or fuck you status, you are not going to have to return, but yeah, if you screw up your calculations and you pull your fuck you lever too soon, then that is on you to suffer through such readjustments based on your own screw ups. I doubt that these are impossible tasks to calculate, even though I know a lot of people do not sufficiently calculate their cushions or to make sure that they have investment assets that are going to support them.. and I think that bitcoin will likely help a lot with these kinds of calculations, especially for folks who valuate their BTC holdings in realistic ways such as using the 200-WMA rather than getting distracted into fantasies based on current spot price or fantasies about future spot prices that may or may not end up playing out.

Quote from: Agbamoni on Today at 10:49:14 AM

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 07:12:20 AM

Well even as a holder of Bitcoin, I haven't even thought of this, or contemplating of surviving on my Bitcoin holdings even when I have gotten the stash of Bitcoin I wanted, though at that point I might decide to be taking profit from it bit by bit after retirement, but not like depending on it fully for survival.
Because to me that's the easiest way to drain the asset you should be leaving for your offsprings.
So having another source of income or a business running for you is very much important, so that you wouldn't get to that point of draining your holdings after retirement.

Though I might be wrong, but having a good source of income as a man is something we shouldn't joke with regardless of your financial status or the stash of Bitcoin in our possession.
So in essence of what am trying to say is that regardless of anything, constant cash flow is very much important even when you have gotten to the top of your Bitcoin accumulation process.

Bitcoin is an asset, but not a guaranteed income source. Using it for survival will only deplete the holdings and affect long-term benefits, even if we feel we have enough to live off of.

You seem to be wrong in your statement, since there are likely ways to accumulate and/or overaccumulate bitcoin to allow it to serve as a principle asset in which a bitcoin holder can establish sustainable withdrawal systems from it and to live off of it.

Quote from: Agbamoni on Today at 10:49:14 AM

I don't know what others think of the assets but to me, I see Bitcoin as a generation wealth building too, an investment that I can preserve and grow for years to come rather than an investment I want to live off with while I am strong and can still get to work.

You can do both and work can become optional. Why wouldn't you want that for yourself? Having more options seems like a good thing to me.

Quote from: Agbamoni on Today at 10:49:14 AM

I know everybody has different opinions and views on this subject matter. But relying on a single asset, no matter how promising it is totally risky.

You don't have to rely on a single asset. You gotta figure out your own situation, including how you are going to allocate to bitcoin while accumulating it and the extent to which you need to or want to diversify and the extent to which you have accumulated enough BTC or more than enough in order to live off of it or use it as a supplement to working income or income from other assets or whatever combination that you choose within your option set, and surely having a lot of bitcoin seems to give a lot of options that you might not be able to get from other assets and/or currencies.

Quote from: Agbamoni on Today at 10:49:14 AM

Why not have another source of income, if you feel you have accumulated enough to quit your job? Instead of feeding from your investment you can sell part of it, get a business, or diversify your investment and live off those ones. It will still provide more money to invest in your Bitcoin back.

So many guys repeating this same dumb idea and presuming that there is a need to sell bitcoin to acquire some other means of income.. and sure that might be what you choose to do, but you it is not necessary to do what you are proclaiming to be necessary, even though you may well choose to optionally set up your system in that kind of way... yet your framing bitcoin accumulation levels with a lot of presumptions that there are needs to establish other income sources seems quite presumptuous and wrong, especially if you had already achieved enough and/or more than enough BTC. Sure if you are still accumulating bitcoin then maybe you might still need to work or to create income from other sources, but once you have reached overaccumulation status, you might not need to jump through so many of the hoops that you seem to be presuming to be necessary to jump through.

Quote from: Agbamoni on Today at 10:49:14 AM

I repeat again, no matter how promising Bitcoin can be don't take the risk of putting all your hopes on it for daily survival.

Hm? You seem to be presuming a lot and repeating similar warning errors. Sure there can be value in diversifying, yet we need to consider where we are at in our BTC accumulation journey in terms of whether we are still accumulating or if we have already overly accumulated. Then also we may well need to consider the extent to which we are reasonably valuating our BTC in light of whether we ONLY have BTC and cash or if we might have other investments by the time we get to a status that we consider to be overaccumulation of bitcoin (presuming that we might have reasonably assessed ourselves to have had reached such overaccumulation status).