Quote from: Sticky Bomb on November 20, 2024, 01:26:34 PM

Quote from: Tungbulu on November 20, 2024, 11:35:22 AM

[edited out]

Maybe you’re not wrong, but then again, you know what they say about no knowledge being a waste right? While I’m of the same opinion that Bitcoin accumulation and long term approach should be paramount to other approaches, is it not worth the lengthy literature for those who are naive about these facts? There are those amongst us who even after knowing that the best approach to winning in Bitcoin is through consistent accumulation and focusing on the long term trajectory of Bitcoin, but still cannot resist the temptation of delving into trading, is it not better to educate these guys and then possibly make them realize the magnitude of their actions and decisions, because one of the major reasons that drives investors into trading is mostly lack of adequate education on the matter, so perhaps their people could also use the medium to learn too on how to stay safe and mitigate losses while continuing in their accumulation process.

Passing the wrong knowledge to a set of people could be doing more harm than good, This knowledge would've been more valuable in the trading discussions board and not here. This information may be misleading to some very new investors who are still trying to find their balance in both knowledge and attitude towards their accumulation journey. I would not support any investor considering trading even for a moment in order to have a very smooth DCA and reach your accumulation target as planned by the investor, an investor should uphold discipline in his accumulation journey and one of the disciplines I made sure I observed was never looking in the direction of trading and so far it has helped me remain focused on my DCA only and I am not changing that pattern anytime soon.

Quote from: Tungbulu on November 20, 2024, 11:35:22 AM

Mind you, I’m not promoting trading in anyway, I’ve had my own share of losses in trading due to ignorance, so now I believe I know better and the least I could do is share my experiences and knowledge so others could also avoid falling into the same trade and ensure they make better investment choices to avoid financial losses. Or wouldn’t you agree with me mate?

How can you say you didn't promote trading after all that writeup explaining about trading, its similarity with gambling and the percentage of income to be apportioned to it. Of course you did promote it, maybe not intentionally. It would do us great good if we remain focused to bitcoin accumulation discussions in this thread and also help and encourage each other towards developing the right attitudes towards our finances and becoming successful long-term Bitcoin investors. As soon as we start distracting ourselves with other unnecessary concerns, we might loose our focus and it is not healthy for us as committed investors.
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This particular thread is not exclusive to discussions of investment, even though surely it seems that a lot of guys in this thread seem to be arguing in favor of investing, and even I am neither an advocate of trading nor do I consider trading to be a good idea when it comes to bitcoin.

I personally see no problem to argue against trading, yet to proclaim that trading is off-topic in this particular thread seems wrong.

Another thing is that even though we are in the bitcoin section of the forum, OP did not clarify that he was talking about (or referring to bitcoin), so even though I am against shitcoins too, and I mostly consider that shitcoin discussions are not productive within bitcoin threads, the OP surely did not clarify which "coin" he was talking about and he seem to even be implying that there is some value in trying to figure out which coin to invest into, implying that he likely did not know the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins and in that regard, he failed to really make a clear description regarding what he was referring to.. I also don't like such vagueness in posts, even though the whole basis of this thread was opened up with such vagueness, which might even justify closing the thread, even though it is a pretty active thread with ongoing posts and onto 110 pages in the last 9-ish months (long enough for a baby).

Quote from: Olatundespo on November 20, 2024, 01:30:56 PM

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 20, 2024, 10:49:14 AM

[edited out

Everyone should be careful while investing in this amazing moment of Bitcoin price growth to add a portion from alternative income sources. An investor who aims to accumulate wealth for a long time by engaging himself with a generational wealth accumulation goal should not be hopeless for an investor. Earning from a single source is risky and time and circumstances tempt you to be informed about different sources and the positive sign of Bitcoin accumulation is that you are more available. Assets like Bitcoin should be given similar priority than real assets potential for savings over the years, such as holding floating cash and the recommendation is to let DCA flow down your driveway like a floating lake. Your advice to try to increase holdings of risky assets and not just rely on it may be correct and positive for investors to have risk free capital and increase generational wealth in the long run.

In conclusion I would say that the advice of not taking any risk on investment may be very reasonable and the possibility of losing assets can be greatly reduced if an investor is able to successfully execute DCA and the assets that he/she owns are his/her discretionary income.

Quite a bit of your post is confusing, yet if I just look at your conclusion section, you seem to be confused about what you are talking about. DCA only works with a long term investment like bitcoin that has sufficiently strong enough fundamentals for the investor to conclude (or speculate) that he believes that the odds are decently well that the BTC price is going to continue to go up during his investment timeline, such as 4-10 years or longer (sure it is not guaranteed, but the investor would achieve a sufficient enough level of confidence that he could continue to DCA into bitcoin and not even really worry about the price so long as he is planning to accumulate for 4-10 years or longer.

Your mentioning of "assets" makes it appear that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about if you actually are speculating that some various other coins (not bitcoin) are actually worthy of DCAing into and that enough confidence could be mustered up to treat any other asset (except bitcoin) as if it had long term potential and it was worthy of DCAing into rather than figuring out its pumping and dumping potentials/timeline.

Regarding your gobble-dee gook reference to discretionary income, it seems you don't understand such term, which largely the use of the term discretionary income is to refer to figuring out how much income is left over after accounting for expenses, and if you are referring to already owning assets and considering the extent to which such assets need to stay as investments or to be reallocated, you just seem to be mixing up ideas and/or failing to use the term discretionary income in a way that inspires confidence that you understand the way that you are using it... or the meaning of the idea.

I am not trying to pick on you, but I just wanted to point out that your conclusion seems to be summarizing confusion within your whole post, even if you might have some decently good ideas, you are presenting them in confusing ways.

Quote from: Odusko on November 20, 2024, 08:18:01 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 20, 2024, 12:06:02 AM

Quote from: Stablexcoin on November 19, 2024, 10:06:28 PM

Quote from: Frankolala on November 19, 2024, 06:59:21 PM

However, if you are in your bitcoin accumulation process and have not reached your bitcoin target, it's impossible for you to say that you want to live on your bitcoin investment, because you need a job to continue accumulating more bitcoin and anyone without a job will not be able to invest in bitcoin and grow his portfolio, which will make you start selling too much of your bitcoin, too quick and you will regret your actions in the long run.

Even if you have reached your Bitcoin accumulation target never say fuck you to your main source of income. Whatever the level of knowledge we think we have acquire its a huge risk to quit our job. 90% of success in Bitcoin investment is long term, consistency and patience. Instead of quitting why not we continue a stable investment to live off or save for a business that you can rely on. The only time i can agree to someone quitting his job is if it is not a good paying job and when an individual has made enough to retire.

It seems to me that you are misunderstanding what it might mean to reach fuck you status, and surely you realize that you can quit your job if you have made enough to retire, so why is that different from quitting ones job when they have enough BTC?

For sure, the more BTC you have the more options you have in regards to income off of it, and there could be errors in calculating the value of your BTC, so surely there are a lot of examples of people who pull their fuck you levers way too early because they miscalculate how much BTC they actually need in order to live off of them and how to valuate them and to valuate their standard of living expenses (or increases in their standard of living due to debasement of the dollar/fiat or from chosen increases of lifestyle expenses).

Most importantly we should not forget to point out the individual differences and our peculiar situations before reaching a fuck you stage, I remember a guy that bought a lot of Bitcoin when the price was low and Banks in my country allowed for direct Bitcoin transactions through the Bank, before the government restrictions, the dude thought that with his current amount of Bitcoin holdings he gave reached the level of fuck you stage with his bank employees, and when a policy that doesn't goes well with him came he quit his job too early, and instead of holding on to his Bitcoin holdings, he dived into some other alternatives investment by liquidating his Bitcoin holdings to channel the money into some other business.

But not long he realize that he gave messed up and need to restrategize so the experience makes us very important to know the exact time to say fuck you and leave on your Bitcoin, he who holds BTC have freedom and there is no need to exchange your Bitcoin to invest in some other alternatives, rsther one should think of hoe to increase your total bitcoun holdings to increase your profits potential in the future.

It is difficult to NOT make those same kind of mistakes as your friend, and sometimes we can become arrogant with our gains and slip into too much risk taking and/or not knowing how to manage the value that we had already built, even if there might be some other possible places to diversify some of the wealth, which truly there are quite a few of us (including yours truly) who consider needs to focus on building the bitcoin wealth first and really not selling any BTC prior to reaching a sufficiently large stash, which sure is part of the problem that your friend seemed to have in regards to both his selling his BTC, but even if he had reached a sufficiently large stash, he still should have ONLY begun to sell small parts of the stash, at most, if such a selling were to be justifiable, yet with your friend, it seems that he was not even close to having a large enough stash to begin to sell any of it.

Another related mistake that people tend to make is to calculate the whole size of their BTC stash and start to consider what they can do with such capital to put it to work in other ways, yet from my point of view, it can be problematic to start to calculate from the total value of the stash in terms of spot price without accounting for the 200-WMA, yet even calculating from the 200-WMA is not really going to help anyone if they are seeing their BTC stash into high profits as comparing spot price to the 200-WMA when they start to see the difference as a justification to try to trade their BTC rather than considering other ways to potentially manage the building of their stash or even just potentially using their free cash to buy other things besides bitcoin if they see that the BTC price might be several times higher than the 200-WMA..

Even right now, as I type this post, we can see that BTC spot price is nearly 130% higher than the 200-WMA, which could create incentives to sell or try to trade the BTC stash, even though historically (such as December 17, 2017), we have seen periods in which spot BTC prices had gotten more than 1,400% higher than the 200-WMA, and sure we cannot necessarily expect such high levels in the future, yet with such abilities to look at BTC prices compared with the 200-WMA, newbies can get confused about what to do or even folks who have been accumulating BTC for less than 4 years also might get confused about what to do.

I am not going to proclaim that I know all of the answers, even though there is a certain value to continue accumulating during at least the first 4 years of your bitcoin journey no matter the BTC price, yet at the same time, it becomes quite harder to justify continuing to buy BTC if the BTC spot price ends up several multiples (and/or magnitudes) higher than the 200-WMA.. so each guy has to figure out how he is going to deal with those kinds of situations, if they come, and based on their own personal circumstances, while realizing that each of us is responsible for our own choices in regards to manage our BTC accumulation periods, our BTC maintenance or wherever we might be in our bitcoin journey at the time of such occurrences, if they end up happening...

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 20, 2024, 09:12:05 PM

Quote from: Moreno233 on November 20, 2024, 08:06:01 PM

Instead of filling here with trading discussion when we are discussing how to buy and continue buying and holding, why not we take some of these discussion to the section meant for trading alone. There you can share your knowledge and experience about trading and it will be better appreciated because in here, most participants in this discussion are more focused in building their Bitcoin portfolio for long term HODL rather than buying and selling within a short interval of time which is what trading is basically about. I don't think there is anyone that condemned you for talking about trading just that your comments seems to be supporting trading in the wrong board, that is what I understand should be creating the reaction you are receiving from many people.

Most of us here have tried trading before learning how to invest and hold. If you will be honest with yourself, you will accept that holding comes with certain degree of peace that cannot be found in trading because in trading, your capital is constantly exposed to risk daily and weekly. This is the reason why many chose never to trade but concentrate in buying and holding.

In as much as we have passed through some processes of trading in life and have figured out that buying and hodling for the long term is probably the best approach to go about Bitcoin investment. This doesn't mean we can force our own side of things into another person. People will always make a decision that best suits their interests. And again, I wouldn't want to force my view on someone who hasn't seen the brighter side of it. Of course, we can share opinions and if such a person does not have his own personal condition it will be difficult for them to deviate from what they see is right.

I largely agree (and maybe almost completely agree) with you that people are responsible for their own choices, and in that regard, it likely is not even polite or proper to be overly attempting to impose our views upon them, yet at the same, time I am not going to agree with you in regards to people knowing what is in their own best interest or presuming that they are going to make anything even close to the right decision, when it comes to bitcoin or any other thing in life.

Some kinds of decisions are more discretionary than others, and so sometimes people are not very good in regards to exercising their own discretion, yet sometimes there might ONLY be so much that we should to or might try to do to save people from themselves, which also might relate to how well we know them and/or how much time we might want to spend attempting to help them to help themselves. Surely there could be times that we are wrong and/or that we are overly imposing ourselves and our views on others, so we sometimes might not even realize our own limitations and/or the limitations within our own points of view, whether it is about bitcoin or any other topic.

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 20, 2024, 09:12:05 PM

Am sure many of us here have one way or another tried trading in the past.

Yep.. and so we can consider that there is a lot of temptations within trading, so sometimes it can be difficult to persuade or stop someone if we think that they are going down such a path and we might not even be convinced ourselves in regards to how we might want to attempt to deal with a situation that might seem like a tempting trade to us, and maybe we might consider some kind of a resolution that involves adjusting the position size rather than completely eliminating carrying out the trade... but yeah, even ideas about position size could be controversial if we consider that there might not be any advantage in carrying out a certain trade, yet the other person (who might have their own money at stake) may well be 100% convinced that trading is a good idea.. and if we might not be even close to thinking the same way, we might have to distance ourself from such a discussion, even though in some situations it could be difficult if we might be interacting with a family member as compared with interacting with nearly a complete stranger...and of course, variations in between those levels of familiarity with the other person with whom we have a difference of opinion (perspectives).

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 20, 2024, 09:12:05 PM

We know how long it took us to understand that it was the wrong path before we committed ourselves to long-term goals.

We can have variations in our progress in regards to moving in a non-trading perspective when it comes to bitcoin, and we might have relapses, and we might even end up making our own mistakes, so I wouldn't proclaim that everyone is free from figuring out how to deal with their temptation to trade BTC.

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 20, 2024, 09:12:05 PM

In the meantime, there is a better approach to tell Tungbulu how dangerous trading is. Perhaps a real-life scenario/experience will be more encouraging.

Examples can surely be helpful in terms of trying to show contrasting perspectives, and/or to attempt to clarify confusions or differences of opinion.

Quote from: Agbamoni on November 20, 2024, 09:12:05 PM

Let's just don't forget we didn't get to know about Bitcoin in the twinkle of an eye. Things we did wrong were part of what built our knowledge of how progressive and successful we have been in our investment.

There are all kinds of mistakes that each of us likely have to make or end up making along the way, and so many of us came to bitcoin with differing levels of experience, knowledge and/or even talents for learning. I agree with you that we might not be able to prevent mistakes of others from happening, even though there could be ways that we are still able to help others (again depending on our level of relationship with such others) to lessen chances that any of their mistakes will contribute to their becoming completely reckt or to overly frustrate them in their bitcoin journey, so there still might be ways to help others without overly imposing ourselves on them.. Some examples could help in this part of the discussion if we were to really want to explore some situation in which we might be thinking about some kind of a relationship with someone else in which we might want to try to intervene more than in others, but also many of us likely come across relationships in which we will want to do the opposite of what the other person is saying, just because we find that other person to be so annoying.. so we purposefully do the opposite, which may or may not end up being a good way of interacting.

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on November 20, 2024, 10:14:18 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on November 19, 2024, 07:49:20 PM

~snip~

What a very good way to consider things about selling and accumulation. It's true that I have accumulated a bit in those early years of BTC but I've sold some from those points of ATHs that we've got in the past but the good thing is that I didn't oversold and still able to accumulate. And I think if ever someone has overaccumulated, it's better than someone overselling huge portions of his holdings. I'm glad that I didn't or I am just patting my back so that I won't remember mistakes that I did that can be considerably huge in valuation now knowing that the price of BTC has been up already. Well, considering accumulation and selling, someone's gonna be in a tough situation about being in both place but I think someone thinking about selling now is having a good problem compared to someone who's struggling to accumulate and didn't know whether they'll continue or not from this point because BTC keeps hitting new ATHs.

I am not sure if I completely agree with your comparison of the newbie to the one who has already accumulated a decent amount of BTC. Surely the one who has already accumulated a decent amount of BTC, that person is going to have more options based on already having had accumulated BTC, yet such person still could end up getting themselves in a pickle if they are overly selling and not even realizing that they are overly selling, but yeah, we cannot save anyone from themselves, since there are quite a few slippery slope matters when it comes to each person attempting to figure out his own 9 individual factors in which ONLY one of those factors deals with perceptions of BTC prices as compared with other places that money can be placed, and so it could become problematic for any newbie to be placing too much emphasis on perceptions of BTC prices, yet even a more experienced BTC accumulator could also get sucked into a similar trap based on his own overly weighting the BTC price matter instead of making sure that he really does sufficiently understand his spot in regards to the other 8 factors.

Of course, with your own 8.5 years in bitcoin (going by your forum registration date), you likely have had several opportunities to get better acquainted with your 9 individual factors (without only overly focusing on your perceptions of BTC price as compared with other possible places that you can put your value), so it is more likely that you are going to have developed some kind of a plan that is more in sync with your other 8 factors.. or at least putting those other 8 factors into your equation in terms of how to deal with various BTC price moves.