Quote from: _BlackStar on December 19, 2024, 05:08:13 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 18, 2024, 09:13:04 PM

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 18, 2024, 08:02:41 PM

-snip-

Your efforts at describing investors and traders as having the same and/or similar goals likely brings more confusion than clarity, and it sounds like a description from a trader trying to proclaim that he is an investor, and yeah, sure, there is some truth in the matter, but it is confusing to want to gravitate towards trading and to be suggesting that trading is a good idea, especially in something like bitcoin that is amongst the best of investments available, and there are so many ways that a trader will end up fucking up an otherwise good investment by trying to profitably trade it.

Thanks for your review JJG - I know I'm bad at this, but that's how I describe it even though I'm not really a trader. I have been investing since I was on this forum and so far I am very proud of my decision to hold even though on the one hand this decision has really tested my mentality and psychology.

On the other hand, I am just trying to explain that some traders also succeed in building their investment portfolio because they regularly buy bitcoin from their trading profits. I'm sure in this case the trader would not mess up their investments just for trading - meaning they have separate budgets between investing and trading. I can guess that you would never agree with this kind of approach - but there are plenty of ways for anyone if they want to build their portfolio.

I agree that there are a variety of ways to invest, and that there are ways that traders can also be investors, yet an overwhelming majority of traders are neither profitable nor are they able to invest while trading -meaning to set aside part of their capital as an investment that may well even support their trading.

Many traders do not have enough capital, they don't build their capital enough in order to have part oftheir funds support them passively while trading the other portion, and so many traders even have trouble employing profitable techniques.

If we zoom out a couple of cycles, let's say 8 years or more, there are rare traders who are able to beat a bitcoin investment strategy, whether we are referring to DCAing into bitcoin or perhaps lump summing or combining lump summing and DCAing.

I have no problem with guys choosing whatever they like, yet I become bothered if guys try to suggest that trading is better than investing, absent some guys who might be able to build trading skills, and sure there can be guys who might work for 10 years and build their capital prior to getting into trading, and sure there can be ways that guys can live off their income from their trading, but then are they able to set aside any of their earnings into investing, and they may well be better off with a side job rather than trying to earn income from trading.

I understand that there might be some guys who are not able to earn income in their location and with their skills, and there could be situations in which these guys are able to earn more income by trading than they would be able to earn with their skills and in the part of the world that they live... yet there are a panoply of factors to consider in regards to whether trying to improve their skills and their income might be better than trying to earn income by trading, whether bitcoin or anything else.

I am not going to try to know some other guys circumstances, since there likely are some guys who can figure out systems to build their capital, build their trading portfolio and also to categorize their funds in such ways that they are also building an investment portfolio, too... perhaps even getting part of their fund to a high enough level that it can support their expenses and lifestyle.. while they continue to have a separate trading portfolio fund that they also might be able to build with the passage of time too.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 19, 2024, 05:08:13 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on December 18, 2024, 09:13:04 PM

I am not going to go through such a wasteful time, even though surely guys are true to choose if they want to try to trade (gamble) their bitcoin, rather than buying regularly and building their portfolio for 4-10 years or longer, and then likely having more options down the road due to such ongoing building of their BTC stash through various accumulation techniques that focus on buying bitcoin, such as DCA, lump sum and buying on dips kinds of ongoing, persistent, consistent and perhaps even aggressive buying.

I can totally understand what you are explaining JJG - but however we can never force anyone to take the same approach as we intended.

I am not forcing anyone. I am describing a way to consider investing into bitcoin that would fit the definition of investing rather than trading or gambling with bitcoin, so if someone has less than a 4 year timeline, then he is trading rather than investing, and if he is calling what he is doing investing, then he is likely fooling himself and/or fooling anyone listening to him.

Quote from: _BlackStar on December 19, 2024, 05:08:13 PM

They clearly have their own choices and strategic approaches regardless of whether it is profitable or will only end in vain. If it were me - I would still choose to invest with the DCA approach as I have done so far.

Most likely I am not proclaiming that guys cannot trade, since guys can do whatever they like, but if they are talking about trading as if it were investing, then that seems misleading to me, and part of the reason that we are in a public thread is to discuss differing ideas about how to go about involving ourselves in bitcoin, if we end up choosing to get involved in bitcoin beyond just reading and writing about it.