Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 09:14:49 AM

[edited out]

if you want to work so be it. boom you are no longer retired.. end of story. you are now employed and not part of f.i.r.e
debate ended(not sure why you are even debating going back to work in a f.i.r.e topic while still pretending you want to be in f.i.r.e)

You are so annoyingly dogmatic sometimes. #justsaying.

I hate to repeat myself, since I think that I already made my point, and your end of story does not seem to resolve the issue.

One thing about truly being in FIRE status is the ability to chose, since if a person is truly financially independent, then he can choose his activities, including whether some of it might include work or entering into obligations (and/or contracts with others that involve services being done by the FIRE person).

Sure a person could lie to himself in regards to exactly where he is at or how obligated he might be, or whether he does his accounting himself (which is a kind of work) or hires accountants and lawyers to do those things.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

can i just say, even bill gates, elon musk, warren buffet are at ultimate FU status, but because they choose to work they are not in f.i.r.e

You can define things however you like, but it neither means you are correct or that others are going to agree with your way of categorizing matters (activities and/or statuses).

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

if your mindset either worries about money or you choose to work as a hobby or to afford shiny things. you cant be in f.i.r.e.

You made a lot of good points earlier, but now you seem to be devolving into your sometimes quasi-retarded self... Not that I don't like you and/or your points, but sometimes you collapse into nearly pure ridiculousness and seeming to want to argue for the mere sake of it.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

the acronym is pretty clear about what defines f.i.r.e.. and when you are finally ready for f.i.r.e, you'll know it

I'll have to ask you, since I won't be able to know it on my own.

Cheesy

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

...you really are scratching at debates which show that you are not understanding f.i.r.e
by you saying you want to enter f.i.r.e at some entry level FU status and then realise you want to buy many shiny things so need to go back to work means you are not ready for f.i.r.e

Sure. Sometimes I might touch upon some personal issues, as examples, yet I am not merely talking about my own status when I discuss this topic or any other forum topic.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

your mindset/financial status is not yet ready for f.i.r.e

The no true bitcoiner argument, right?

I will admit that many aspects of managing investment portfolios and/or the bitcoin component within will have both financial and psychological elements. Another thing that I frequently argue is that if any of us prepare our own finances in such a way that we are prepared for BTC price moves in either direction, then our psychology will likely take care of itself... so in some sense, having good financial management leads to better psychology.

Regarding how any of us spends our days could be another story. If I might have various amenities such as housing, food, transportation, entertainment in place, yet if I might want to add to such amenities to buy some hookers, lambos and blow, then that is going to change some obligations that I might have in regards to not only the transactions that might be involved and also the extent to which I might enter into obligations in regards to how to manage those hookers, lambos and blow.. will some of that be work? perhaps? Perhaps I am changing my obligations and my mindset might not be correct when I choose the purchase of such goods and services.

Let's say that I am getting a bit bored, and I drive by an apartment complex that has around 30 units, and I think that maybe it would be fun to buy it, and then to either hang out there or maybe renovate some of it, or maybe just run it to the ground.. or change the tenants. Perhaps the complex is going to cost me around $15 million to buy, and then it might cost me another $5 million to have fun with it.. sure there might be some work, but it seems like something that I am interested in.. Is my mindset wrong because I chose an activity that might involve a combination of work and fun? Let's say that I have around 1,500 bitcoin, so it is not like I have money issues, even though I still might have some issues about how to manage such 1,500 bitcoin.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

to truly be in f.i.r.e you need to be at a financially independent status to retire early
so again if your not at a financially independent status and then not want to retire.. you are not in f.i.r.e... its that simple

Of course, for you it is simple, since you seem to know almost everything.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

my point is that i can easily afford to buy all the shiny things... but my mindset has changed where shiny things have become boring and non essential to my happiness. i prefer to use my funds to buy experiences and meaningful things
frugality in f.i.r.e is not about living like a homeless person to keep wealth.. frugality in fire is about the mindset of affording everything but not needing it all

To me, it seems that shiny things can give meaning and experiences, too... but hey? what do I know?

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

my point was simple.. you get to a certain mindset where you no longer worry about money (fu status) where you no longer play the consumerist game of trying to impress the jones by stressing about what others think

what makes you speculate that my buying hookers lambos and blows is motivated based on concerns about what others think?

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

its not about forcing yourself to live without things you want in some forced frugal living situation.. its about the mindset of being financially free to buy what ever your want but just not needing to spend money/burn money wastfully

You seem to know what is wasteful and what isn't and you seem to also presume that you are going to know whether obligations might be created by purchasing goods and/or services and also the extent to which those obligations are voluntary or forced.. or just following the herd as you seem to suggest to be an issue for some of us... perhaps even yours truly?

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

if your still stuck in the worry and stress of money and impressing people.. your not ready for the f.i.r.e mindset/experience

years ago i never understood why warren buffet doesnt have hundreds of vacation homes and car collections.. but now im financially independent i now see why having the latest lambo is not that exciting anymore
...

heres a little lesson for you shiny thing lovers
when you want that $400k lambo to impress the women walking on the sidewalk as they go nightclubbing in mainstreet.. you soon realise when driving such a vehicle you are then stressed about scratching the base of the lowered suspensioned car. so you are now driving it slower than usual and your eyes are on the road watching for potholes and speedbumps.. so no longer enjoying the cruising down mainstreet during the nightscene of nightclubs and women. you no longer have the opportunity to just look out the side window to enjoy the view
you are instead watching the road and watching out for jealous men who want to scratch the side of your car or throwbottles at the car as they come out of nightclubs
you instead later learn to buy a $200k car which can afford you to pay a chauffeur at $50k a year, so you can sit back in the backseat and look out the side window looking at all the 'totty'

I am glad that you got that figured out.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

when you want to wear the most expensive suit and wear the most expensive rolex, driving the most expensive car. you begin to worry about getting robbed/kidnapped,

I would not want to get kidnapped or robbed.. so does that make me fitting for FIRE status? or not?

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

so would then worry about security and hire a bodyguard. but then your body guard starts dictating your actions and guiding you, setting schedules and routes to travel.. controlling your life and you become dependant on them to decide where you go..

I wouldn't want that, but sometimes if you want to keep the good body guard, you might sometimes need to work within their parameters.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

you instead later learn to just wear whats comfortable. so you dress casually to just go about your day without drawing attention to yourself, giving you back your freedom to just do what you want. it also silences the other people who approach you just for handouts(gold digger hoes)

all im saying is when you truly reach that FU status and want to enter f.i.r.e status and experience it. you will learn lessons, and your mindset will change.. i was simply trying to give you a heads up that things will be different to your current plans

I am glad that you are leading the way, so that you can tell us what it is like before we reach such status (or falsely believe that we have reached such status, when we hadn't). Thanks for taking one for the team.

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 10:49:28 AM

..if your still in the wanting to waste money impressing people.. you would be in "rich" category..
where as wealthy people have the money to buy anything but find all the impressing others BS, boring and not needed in their life

i do truly hope you go through the FU status, rich status and finally land in the wealth status of f.i.r.e... as its a truly freeing feeling.. goodluck to you, its life changing

Your categorization of those three statuses seem a bit confusing and even stifling..

I would imagine that a lot of people in bitcoin have gained in various ways in regards to building up their bitcoin and having more and more options. Whether guys choose to quit their jobs or how they choose to spend, invest, consume their wealth seems to have quite a bit of variance, even though surely we could try to put some of them into categories in order to better communicate how we might get there or how we might manage our spending once there, yet I have my doubts about your lecturing about what is meaningful and what is not meaningful is greatly helpful, even if some of us may well agree with some of your points.

Quote from: Obim34 on Today at 03:30:35 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 09:14:49 AM

Quote from: franky1 on Today at 05:59:04 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 05, 2025, 10:54:35 PM

I personally believe that we can live quite improved lives with BTC as our wealth, and it may well be quite likely that the BTC value will grow way beyond our spending pace, so if the BTC is allowed to compound in value a few more times, we may well end up with way more wealth than we expected, which may well allow us to go from spending wealthy and wise and into higher levels of extravagance.

It is like going from entry-level fuck you status (FIRE status), end then getting to a point that is multiples higher than the entry-level status, and then perhaps being 10s or even 100x higher than the entry-level fuck you status at a kind of filthy rich status, which some of those higher levels can come without necessarily having to work hard at it, but just living within one's means and allowing the value to continue to compound, which so far in bitcoin's history, it has compounded many, many times...

bitcoin will compound at far better rate than any bank account interest rate or portfolio manage stock options.. its just picking the target amount where the compounding is growing more then the withdrawal, to decide whats the best number to find sustainable living amount to then retire and enjoy it

can i just offer some advice.. the whole 'fuck you status' of just extravagance/burning money 'cos i can' gets boring quick..

From my perspective, there are varying levels of fuck you status, including the bare minimum of being able to choose not to work. There is no need to read fuck you status beyond that, even though surely I would concede that even being able to refuse to work full time and only to work part time, could be considered a moderated fuck you status that might ONLY be possible if enough savings/investment is built up to allow for an ability to not be forced to work full time based on having to have enough income to support yourself and your chosen standard of living.

Fuck you status are not reached by savings, this is the point where most people usually get it wrong perhaps winning a lottery won't give the chance of retiring at an early age. Fuck you status are met at the point where monthly, annual and yearly investments has be deployed firmly, it is not just a source of income that will temporarily fit to sustain one's initial need, fuck you status should be at the point where these build ups can last past several generations.

I found out the best kind of fuck you status are those solid on digital assets, digital firms and companies not just an organization of workers that will one day reduce production and success rate due to certain level of advancement leaving them behind.

I would suggest that there can be a considerable amount of flexibility in terms of how a guy might consider himself reaching fuck you status, and how he might project his ability to either stay in fuck you status or even to potentially continue to increase his wealth (or his level of fuck you status) after he had determined that he is already in it. So surely, I have done quite a bit of discussion about how to attempt to make fuck you status sustainable, yet at the same time, if a guy might consider his timeline to be limited or maybe he even projects his timeline in a certain number of years, then he might just project how much of whatever wealth he had achieved to be spent within his projection of his timeline.

I personally prefer to consider sustainability in terms of being able to perpetually spend from a guys investment, yet surely there can be life circumstances that might involve age and/or health that might cause someone to reasonably conclude that projecting a certain number of years is morre practical to their own circumstances.

Quote from: Smartprofit on Today at 05:27:50 PM

The FIRE concept is a very interesting financial concept. I am currently reading many articles on this topic.

The main difficulty faced by a person who wants to achieve financial independence is how to earn the initial capital. Very often, a hired worker receives a salary that is enough only to cover current expenses (rent, utilities, travel to and from work, food, shoes, clothes, simple entertainment).

You believe that there aren't ways to increase your income and/or cut your expenses in order to have money to invest, whether into bitcoin or otherwise? If you spend all of your money, then it becomes difficult to imagine how you will ever reach FIRE status, absent winning the lottery or some other miracle.

I think that part of the idea of FIRE is to help you to formulate your own destiny, even if there are likely going to be struggles along the way, and you are also not guaranteed to be successful in your efforts to reach your intended goal(s).

Quote from: Smartprofit on Today at 05:27:50 PM

Meanwhile, for the purposes of the FIRE concept, income must significantly exceed expenses. Because it is net profit that is the source of funds for investment.

That is, an apologist for the FIRE concept must either become a highly qualified and highly paid employee or the owner of a successful business. Both tasks are quite difficult.

Some folks have more obstacles than others, and of course, the greater your income over your expenses, then the more you can invest and the greater could be your chances of expediting the process of actually reaching FIRE status, and so it could make a difference if you are able to invest $10 per week, $100 per week, $1,000 per week or some other amount in terms of making meaningful progress... including figuring out how much time that you have to do it.. 30-40 years? or some shorter period? Of course, getting there faster would be nice, but you still have to work within your parameters and if you are able to improve your parameters.